Bokmal vs Nynorsk

[jamescull]

I started learning Norwegian about 4 months ago, and I soon discovered that my course (Teach Yourself Norwegian by Margarata Danbolt Simons) taught Bokmal. I was recently given a article in Nynorsk and found that I couldn't understand most of it.

Will Bokmal remain or will Nynorsk completely take over? Should I buy a Nynorsk course and start all over again?

[Car]

You might want to read the article about Bokmål and Nynorsk at the UniLang Wiki.

Once your Bokmål improves, Nynorsk should also be easier to read for you.

[selters]

I started learning Norwegian about 4 months ago, and I soon discovered that my course (Teach Yourself Norwegian by Margarata Danbolt Simons) taught Bokmal. I was recently given a article in Nynorsk and found that I couldn't understand most of it.

Will Bokmal remain or will Nynorsk completely take over? Should I buy a Nynorsk course and start all over again?

I will probably get flamed for this, but the only reason why nynorsk is kept alive is that fanatics control the language policies in Norway. The vast majority of the population uses bokmal. Some people will claim that several hundred thousand people in Norway use nynorsk as their main written language. Perhaps this is true, because some schools are forced to teach nynorsk by the fanatics.

Throughout the course of my entire life, the people I have met that write nynorsk exclusively can be counted on one hand.

Don't worry, at least 95% of everything written in Norwegian is in bokmal.

I know some of the fanatics visit this board frequently, and they will of course try to convince you that nynorsk is worth learning.

[Gormur]

I started learning Norwegian about 4 months ago, and I soon discovered that my course (Teach Yourself Norwegian by Margarata Danbolt Simons) taught Bokmal. I was recently given a article in Nynorsk and found that I couldn't understand most of it.

Will Bokmal remain or will Nynorsk completely take over? Should I buy a Nynorsk course and start all over again?

I will probably get flamed for this, but the only reason why nynorsk is kept alive is that fanatics control the language policies in Norway. The vast majority of the population uses bokmal. Some people will claim that several hundred thousand people in Norway use nynorsk as their main written language. Perhaps this is true, because some schools are forced to teach nynorsk by the fanatics.

Throughout the course of my entire life, the people I have met that write nynorsk exclusively can be counted on one hand.

Don't worry, at least 95% of everything written in Norwegian is in bokmal.

I know some of the fanatics visit this board frequently, and they will of course try to convince you that nynorsk is worth learning.

As for spoken language, they are "spoken" with about equal measure, not accounting for all of the separate dialectal features, of course...

[selters]

What plays a large role in my dislike of nynorsk is that it is a constructed language.

For instance, dialects from all over Norway use words that start with the prefixes -an and -be, and words that end with -else. Apart from a few exceptions, these words are forbidden in Nynorsk.

Also, when the research was done to create the vocabulary of Nynorsk, my region (Østlandet) was to a large extent left out for no apparent reason.

Around the capitol, Oslo, quite a few people seem to speak very similarly to standard Bomål, but no people actually learn Nynorsk naturally; the only people who speak it started speaking it AFTER they had learned it.

You guys are overestimating the position of Nynorsk in Norway. Basically, if no-one were forced to learn it, perhaps 1% of the population would use it as their main written language.

[Hunef]

Also, when the research was done to create the vocabulary of Nynorsk, my region (Østlandet) was to a large extent left out for no apparent reason.

Yes, this is the great flaw of Nynorsk. It is supposed to be the native norwegian language, and therefore it should have features from all norwegian dialects. As far as I know, the only specifically eastern feature of Nynorsk is the 't' in the neuter definite article: huset 'the house' etc. This 't' is silent in all of Norway except for a dialect spoken in the extreme southeast. (NB: There are many specifically western features of Nynorsk.) Nynorsk also suffers from redundant insertion of 'j' in e.g. gjest 'guest'; inconsistent use of 'i' in unstressed syllables (only in the so called i-mål variety of Nynorsk), e.g. soli 'the sun' and taki 'the roofs' vs stolen 'the chair' and takjet 'the roof' (etymologically and dialectally there should be no 'i' vs 'e' discrepancy here in these words) etc.

[keme]

Also, when the research was done to create the vocabulary of Nynorsk, my region (Østlandet) was to a large extent left out for no apparent reason.

Yes, this is the great flaw of Nynorsk. It is supposed to be the native norwegian language, and therefore it should have features from all norwegian dialects.

Agreed!

As far as I know, the only specifically eastern feature of Nynorsk is the 't' in the neuter definite article: huset 'the house' etc. This 't' is silent in all of Norway except for a dialect spoken in the extreme southeast.

And this does not differ between Bokmål and Nynorsk!

(NB: There are many specifically western features of Nynorsk.) Nynorsk also suffers from redundant insertion of 'j' in e.g. gjest 'guest';

... and Bokmål does not? Incidentally, the gj gives a j sound, the g is silent, and hence would be redundant if we follow the logic reasoning.

... inconsistent use of 'i' in unstressed syllables (only in the so called i-mål variety of Nynorsk), e.g. soli 'the sun' and taki 'the roofs' vs stolen 'the chair' and takjet 'the roof' (etymologically and dialectally there should be no 'i' vs 'e' discrepancy here in these words) etc.

No discrepancy/incostistency! When using "i-mål" variations, feminine nouns get the -i ending in singular definite form, while neuter nouns use that ending for plural definite form. Very regular!

[Hunef]

Also, when the research was done to create the vocabulary of Nynorsk, my region (Østlandet) was to a large extent left out for no apparent reason.

Yes, this is the great flaw of Nynorsk. It is supposed to be the native norwegian language, and therefore it should have features from all norwegian dialects.

Agreed!

As far as I know, the only specifically eastern feature of Nynorsk is the 't' in the neuter definite article: huset 'the house' etc. This 't' is silent in all of Norway except for a dialect spoken in the extreme southeast.

And this does not differ between Bokmål and Nynorsk!

(NB: There are many specifically western features of Nynorsk.) Nynorsk also suffers from redundant insertion of 'j' in e.g. gjest 'guest';

... and Bokmål does not? Incidentally, the gj gives a j sound, the g is silent, and hence would be redundant if we follow the logic reasoning.

My point here was that Nynorsk uses the danish inserted j. Naturally, Bokmål has this danish feature. Nynorsk, based on the norwegian dialects with palatalised g in front of soft vowels, doesn't need it. One should write gest. (NB: Some time ago, this inserted j was removed in danish orthography. It was removed from swedish orthography centuries ago which is the reason one writes e.g. gäst and not gjäst, lägga and not läggja etc.) Can you find any originally norwegian word spelled ge- where the g is hard, [g], and not palatalised to a [j]? (I can't imagine any originally swedish word starting with ge-/gä- having a hard g. This is why one doesn't have the redundant insertion of j in Swedish.)

... inconsistent use of 'i' in unstressed syllables (only in the so called i-mål variety of Nynorsk), e.g. soli 'the sun' and taki 'the roofs' vs stolen 'the chair' and takjet 'the roof' (etymologically and dialectally there should be no 'i' vs 'e' discrepancy here in these words) etc.

No discrepancy/incostistency! When using "i-mål" variations, feminine nouns get the -i ending in singular definite form, while neuter nouns use that ending for plural definite form. Very regular!

My point here wasn't to say that it is irregular but rather that there is no dialectal or etymological motivation for this i vs (j)e feature. One should either write

soli, taki and stolin, takit;
or
sole, takje and stolen, takjet.

(When I think about it, the vowel in Old Norse -in has become a different sound than the vowel in Old Norse -inn, -it etc. in most dialect. One should reasonably have a different vowel here. In a-mål one use an a here:

sola, takja vs stolen, takjet.

To make Nynorsk as norwegian as possible, one should use the most common pronunciation, i.e. use the a-mål standard. [ I know that the i-mål people complain that one will mix the strong and weak feminine nouns then, i.e. get the same definite ending in e.g. sola 'the sun' and gjenta 'the girl'. ]

[RedKennedy]

So if one were to learn Bokmal, Nynorsk wouldn't be too hard to learn afterward?

[Illych]

Correct, but usuallt it is not worth the trouble. Bokmål will get you a long way.

[Gormur]

snakk skandinavisk da...
helt latterlig...
ingen snakker bokmål/nynorsk, alle snakker dialekt...

[óðinn]

snakk skandinavisk da...
helt latterlig...
ingen snakker bokmål/nynorsk, alle snakker dialekt...

Jyst he allihop talar dealekt så he e best te tala na fårm åv na skandinaviskan dealekt annus var int e te na.

Högsvensk? Wtf dealekt va tilreklit reij på vikingatiin så tå dåger e no nö å.

[wilsonsamm]

Also, when the research was done to create the vocabulary of Nynorsk, my region (Østlandet) was to a large extent left out for no apparent reason.

Yes, this is the great flaw of Nynorsk. It is supposed to be the native norwegian language, and therefore it should have features from all norwegian dialects. >snip!<

Det mener jeg er bare fordi Bokmål var mye mer populært i Østlandet, og fordi Dansk hadde en større innflytelse der.

Så vidt jeg vet, reiste Ivar Aasen på tvers av Norge, fra Vest til Øst, og tok derfor med Østlandsdialektene. Formene "Kven, Kvifor" osv. fant han i større bruk, derfor var det de som ble med i skriftspråket.

[Rounin]

Han har i alle fall greid å konstruere en språkform som fremmedgjør en svært stor del av befolkningen, og gjør at mange føler seg tråkket på når de blir tvunget til å lære den.

Her er noe han forøvrig skal ha sagt om det selv:

"Denne nye sprogformen skulde aldeles ikke paabydes eller paanødes, man skulde opmuntre til dens Brug, men ellers lade Enhver bruge det Nye eller Gamle efter eget Godtbefindende."

Akk, så feil han tok.

[Hunef]

Also, when the research was done to create the vocabulary of Nynorsk, my region (Østlandet) was to a large extent left out for no apparent reason.

Yes, this is the great flaw of Nynorsk. It is supposed to be the native norwegian language, and therefore it should have features from all norwegian dialects. >snip!<

Det mener jeg er bare fordi Bokmål var mye mer populært i Østlandet, og fordi Dansk hadde en større innflytelse der.

Så vidt jeg vet, reiste Ivar Aasen på tvers av Norge, fra Vest til Øst, og tok derfor med Østlandsdialektene. Formene "Kven, Kvifor" osv. fant han i større bruk, derfor var det de som ble med i skriftspråket.

[På svensk:] Den enda specifika östlandsformen jag kan hitta i nynorska är att man använder '-t' i bestämd form neutrum: 'huset', 'bordet' etc. (Här borde man egentligen ha haft '-d' eller ingen konsonant alls.)

[chuff]

After having read this thread, I'm starting to hate Nynorsk..


What's keeping it from being completely abolished within a generation of Norwegians?

[óðinn]

After having read this thread, I'm starting to hate Nynorsk..


What's keeping it from being completely abolished within a generation of Norwegians?

Høgnorsk (High Norwegian) is the shit! Høgnorsk and Háfrónska to the people. Ok maybe not.

The original idea behind Nynorsk was good, but it seems to me like a couple of things need to be corrected in order to create a written form of norwegian close to the dialects. But of course not my business since i don't speak norwegian.

[avataar]

Det er òg mogleg å lære seg nynorsk som utlending og bruke han som sitt hovudmål. Eg byrja med bokmål, men seinare sette meg føre å skifte til nynorsk. No skriv eg nesten berre nynorsk og trivst med det. Han har òg hjelpt meg til å forstå dialektane betre. Så ja, det er ikkje berre dei stakkars elevane som lærer seg nynorsk

It's also possible to learn Nynorsk as a foreigner and use it as your primary Norwegian written language. I started with Bokmål but later decided to change to Nynorsk. Now I write almost only in Nynorsk and I love it. It has also helped me to understand the dialects better.

[0stsee]

Hi, as far as I know Bokmål dominates in Norway, and that only about 10% of Norwegians use Nynorsk.

When I was in Norway, I was in Sogn og Fjordane. I did notice that somewhere during our driving there, the sign changed from "Husk bilbeltet" to "Hugs bilbeltet".

I stayed in a Christian guesthouse and the monolingual Bible there was in Nynorsk, whilst the bilingual New Testament was in Bokmål and English. I was amazed how much easier it was to read Bokmål (I had some Danish knowledge).

I appreciate Nynorsk, but I'll just stay at Bokmål because all the learning materials I know are in Bokmål anyways.


Btw, some basic things can really be confusing, f.ex. the word "de" means "they" in Bokmål and "you" in Nynorsk.


Mark

[Gormur]

Btw, some basic things can really be confusing, f.ex. the word "de" means "they" in Bokmål and "you" in Nynorsk.

De (with a capital d) is the formal address of you, which is actually bokmål; it is rather old-fashioned now, however. De (with a lower-case d) is used in nynorsk, however. It is the plural form of you. Dykk is more prevalent in written form, though.

I use de (it's in my dialect) as the plural you, but people often seem to think I'm using De so now I usually have to use dere, dykk, or dokker (dialect word) to be understood.