Dialect discussion

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Dialect discussion

Postby Aleco » 2008-01-22, 20:03

I think we need a thread about dialects - any kind of questions or anything :P

I just had to share this video with you guys in Sognamaol :lol: I didn't understand anything more than
"hallou" and "var da noko do ljourte pao?" :lol:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GnjUHSgGebc
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Re: Dialect discussion

Postby Hunef » 2008-01-22, 20:44

Aleco wrote:I think we need a thread about dialects - any kind of questions or anything :P

I just had to share this video with you guys in Sognamaol :lol: I didn't understand anything more than
"hallou" and "var da noko do ljourte pao?" :lol:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GnjUHSgGebc

Sounds like a Jamtlandic accent. Bergsmål? According to local mythology, people in Berg in southwestern Jämtland are supposed have to come from Sogn- og fjordane in the Viking age. And it's well-known that Nordfjord got a large Jamtlandic population after the 16th and 17th centuries of wars between Denmark and Sweden when Jämtland changed masters a dozen times or so.

Some people even categorize Jamtlandic as Eastern Norwegian with a Western Norwegian accent. (It's probably this "inconsistency" which is the reason Jamtlandic isn't considered a Norwegian dialect, unlike Härjedalish, by most Swedish dialectologists.)
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Re: Dialect discussion

Postby Bokkjen » 2008-01-23, 19:52

Hunef wrote:Sounds like a Jamtlandic accent. Bergsmål? According to local mythology, people in Berg in southwestern Jämtland are supposed have to come from Sogn- og fjordane in the Viking age. And it's well-known that Nordfjord got a large Jamtlandic population after the 16th and 17th centuries of wars between Denmark and Sweden when Jämtland changed masters a dozen times or so.

Though having been exposed to a lot of Bergsmål I couldn't comprehend anything from this. :?

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Re: Dialect discussion

Postby Hunef » 2008-01-23, 20:42

Bokkjen wrote:
Hunef wrote:Sounds like a Jamtlandic accent. Bergsmål? According to local mythology, people in Berg in southwestern Jämtland are supposed have to come from Sogn- og fjordane in the Viking age. And it's well-known that Nordfjord got a large Jamtlandic population after the 16th and 17th centuries of wars between Denmark and Sweden when Jämtland changed masters a dozen times or so.

Though having been exposed to a lot of Bergsmål I couldn't comprehend anything from this. :?

I was referring to the accent, not to vocabulary, grammar etc.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Postby Bondefanget » 2008-01-24, 14:57

Norwegian dialects is actually an interesting subject. I'm glad we have dialects, because they're an important part of the local identity and culture, but also because straight forward bokmål would sound horrible.
Therefore it's sad to see that many dialects are gradually vanishing, due to influence from both the Oslo-dialects and from other languages. Still, Norwegians generally feels very connected to where they're from, and therefore also the culture and dialect. But that's another problem, as we today can move around the country. I know this well from Sandefjord, which has grown a lot the last 10-20 years. This of course due to people moving here, both from other parts of Norway and from foreign countries. This has influenced the local dialect, and most people here won't speak with the local dialect (I do however).

Personally I think primary schools should employ local teachers (at least in norwegian class), which would then use the local dialect (at least spoken dialect, perhaps not written). This way kids would learn the local dialect, and hopefully will use it themselves.
Looking for someone to practise [flag=]fi[/flag] with (e.g. Skype, instant messaging, etc.). Can offer to practise [flag=]no[/flag] in return :)

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Postby Aleco » 2008-01-24, 15:04

Bondefanget wrote:Personally I think primary schools should employ local teachers (at least in norwegian class), which would then use the local dialect (at least spoken dialect, perhaps not written). This way kids would learn the local dialect, and hopefully will use it themselves.

I agree so much! My teacher talk plain Bokmål, and it's actually in the way, 'cause we can't help it commenting every single feminine noun they say as masculine nouns - it's all so unnatural. And I am glad we all comment it and get bothered with it :) We also comment everywhere where thick L's should've been used and when they don't have our stereotypical -ær ending :lol: So, all together, we generally don't go far in class due to ... wrong way of speaking :P
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Postby Bondefanget » 2008-01-24, 15:46

Hehe, I can to a degree relate to that. I often react when I hear some words pronounced like bokmål, and sometimes I do comment it. It's especially in some of the adevertising on telly that I react. And I do comment it sometimes, even though I know they can't hear me. :lol:
And I do comment when people I know makes the same kind of "mistakes" sometimes. In a friendly manner of course, like an advice.
Looking for someone to practise [flag=]fi[/flag] with (e.g. Skype, instant messaging, etc.). Can offer to practise [flag=]no[/flag] in return :)

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Postby Aszev » 2008-01-24, 21:34

Noen lenker til sider om dialekter, hvis dere har flere, så lenke gjerne til dem her!

Dialektkart
Dialektor (flash-program)
Fler dialektkart
Kristiansandsdialekten i endring (artikkel)

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Postby Aleco » 2008-01-25, 6:14

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Takk Aszev

Postby 0stsee » 2008-01-25, 9:09

Aszev wrote:Noen lenker til sider om dialekter, hvis dere har flere, så lenke gjerne til dem her!

Dialektkart
Dialektor (flash-program)
Fler dialektkart
Kristiansandsdialekten i endring (artikkel)


Thanks for the links, Aszev!
I love the Norwegian language where you can speak very differently than how you write.
I actually came to a point where I got used to it, but now I haven't had so much exposure to Norwegian, but to Swedish instead (it's amazing how many people in Rostock can actually speak Swedish! :shock: ).
Ini tandatanganku.

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Postby Hunef » 2008-01-26, 19:09

There's a great Jamtlandic guy, Peder Persson, who's occassionally singing in the local dialect Härjedalish. E.g., here you can download a sample of his Öst-trönder ('East Trønds') which was a big hit in Trøndelag just west of where I live.
    Image
    Peder Persson (1965-) in a traditional Jamtlandic merchant suit
    with the Freyr amulet of a boar's bone they always wore for
    good luck on the markets.
The patriotic, pro-Jamtlandic lyrics you can hear in the sample:
    För snart sô har dôm tii ifrån ôss både skog ô tôrv
    strôman har dôm dämd opp, ô tjyn ha vôrti kôrv
    Men fär mö in i Nôrge, dâr mö alle har nôn släkt
    så släpp mö ändå byte dialekt

    För mö ä Öst-Trönder mö ô itnô ânne
    mö söng "vi elsker dette lanne"
    lyssna på Åge, Finn ô Vômmôl
    mö går på tur nôr mö blir gômmôl
    Öst-Trönder skriv mö sjôl i passe
    Kong Harald häng på utedasse
    EU fä dôm ha i fre, läll
    tull’n kan dôm flött tä Linsell
which translates to
    Because soon they'll have taken away from us both forest and peat
    the streams they have dammed, and the cows have become sausage
    But if we go into Norway, where we all have some family
    we at least don't have to change dialect

    Because we are nothing else but East Trønds
    we sing "we love this nation" (i.e. the Norwegian national anthem)
    listen to Åge, Finn and Vommol (i.e. some Trøndish (?) musicians)
    we go hiking when we get old
    We write East Trønds in the passport
    King Harald (i.e. the Norwegian king) hangs in the outhouse
    EU they leave alone, nevertheless
    the customs they can move to Linsell (a village in southeastern Härjedalen)
Great guy who's just released a new album. 8) (His homepage.)
Last edited by Hunef on 2008-01-27, 18:54, edited 1 time in total.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
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Postby Aszev » 2008-01-26, 19:20

Isn't that a touch of Jamtlandic supremacy to call someone from Härjedalen a Jamtlandic patriot for singing about Härjedalen?

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Postby Hunef » 2008-01-26, 19:21

Aszev wrote:Isn't that a touch of Jamtlandic supremacy to call someone from Härjedalen a Jamtlandic patriot for singing about Härjedalen?

Yes. :wink: But I know he wouldn't mind calling him a jamt in honour. :lol: My main point is that both many people in Härjedalen and many peoplein Jämtland call themselves East Trønds.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan

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Postby j0nas » 2008-01-26, 21:58

Damn swedes.

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Postby Aleco » 2008-01-26, 22:56

Hehe, stilig sang, da :) Minner meg om en undersøkelse som viste at over 50% av skåningene vill til Danmark, men bare 24% av Båhuslens befolkning ville til Norge. Lure rpå hva resultatet ville ha vært i Jemtland eller Herjedalen...
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Postby Mulder-21 » 2008-01-27, 17:35

Jeg forstår lite av det videoklippet. Men dialektaksenten er ganske mærkelig, fordi nu og da minner det mere on færøysk (affrikativerne) og/eller islandsk (det var noe der som minte om IS). :)
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Postby Hunef » 2008-01-27, 18:55

Aleco wrote:Hehe, stilig sang, da :) Minner meg om en undersøkelse som viste at over 50% av skåningene vill til Danmark, men bare 24% av Båhuslens befolkning ville til Norge. Lure rpå hva resultatet ville ha vært i Jemtland eller Herjedalen...

Probably a higher percentage in Härjedalen than in Jämtland, and probably a higher percentage in Jämtland than in Skåne. :wink:
Last edited by Hunef on 2008-01-27, 18:58, edited 1 time in total.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan

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Postby Hunef » 2008-01-27, 18:57

Mulder-21 wrote:Jeg forstår lite av det videoklippet. Men dialektaksenten er ganske mærkelig, fordi nu og da minner det mere on færøysk (affrikativerne) og/eller islandsk (det var noe der som minte om IS). :)

Many Härjedalish dialects have a very strong preaspiration (supposedly due to Sami influence), though the dialect in the song sample doesn't seem to have them.

Note though that the dialect has tii sup. 'taken', cf. Faroese tikið, also with two consecutive i's. 8)
Last edited by Hunef on 2008-01-28, 20:13, edited 1 time in total.
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan

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Postby Bokkjen » 2008-01-27, 20:04

Hunef wrote:
Aszev wrote:Isn't that a touch of Jamtlandic supremacy to call someone from Härjedalen a Jamtlandic patriot for singing about Härjedalen?

Yes. :wink: But I know he wouldn't mind calling him a jamt in honour. :lol: My main point is that both many people in Härjedalen and many peoplein Jämtland call themselves East Trønds.

True but you can't call a person from Härjedalen "jamt". My great grandmother won't even acknowledge that she lives in Jämtland County (Jämtlands län). :lol: She originates not far from Linsell btw.

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Postby Hunef » 2008-01-28, 20:14

Bokkjen wrote:
Hunef wrote:
Aszev wrote:Isn't that a touch of Jamtlandic supremacy to call someone from Härjedalen a Jamtlandic patriot for singing about Härjedalen?

Yes. :wink: But I know he wouldn't mind calling him a jamt in honour. :lol: My main point is that both many people in Härjedalen and many peoplein Jämtland call themselves East Trønds.

True but you can't call a person from Härjedalen "jamt". My great grandmother won't even acknowledge that she lives in Jämtland County (Jämtlands län). :lol: She originates not far from Linsell btw.

No, but I wouold say that both härjedalians and jamts are East Trønds (or whatever the anglicized form would be). :wink:
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan


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