Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Ahzoh
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby Ahzoh » 2013-10-23, 1:46

One thing I have to complain about Polish, and probably alot of slavic language... is the grammatical gender...
you could have different words to have the same meaning and the only difference is whether the speaker was born male or born female.
Why would I need to know who's gender?
I think it's a waste of memory.
Taking up twice amount of energy to memorize words for male and female speakers and listening for them.

perhaps ne day Polish and many other language will abandon the wasteful addition of grammatical gender.
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby pittmirg » 2013-10-23, 15:45

Well, I don't know about you but about the first thing I recognize when I see a stranger is whether they are male or female. That's what my brain spits out incredibly quickly.* It feels, like, biologically important (not surprisingly) and might be the cause or one cause behind the widespread occurence of sex-based grammatical gender systems.** Perhaps you're wired in a different way. But I'm smelling an ideological motivation behind your detestation of grammatical gender.

*of course, I might err (or my brain's algorithms might prove not 100% accurate) due to poor visibility, unusual (in my culture) clothes, hair style etc. Yet I relatively rarely hesitate.
**this isn't to say that grammatical gender doesn't have other fuctions besides reminding about the gender/sex of the one referred to.
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby Патрислав Андреевич » 2013-10-23, 18:15

Ahzoh wrote:perhaps ne day Polish and many other language will abandon the wasteful addition of grammatical gender.


I hope not. :lol: I like it this way and don't think it's a 'wasteful' addition. Gender is important.

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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby Ahzoh » 2013-10-23, 19:48

Not really, I find grammatical gender has come more out of societal classing and stuff like that and less out of necessity.

There are very FEW benefits to knowing the gender of your speaker, and the rest is because of the society.

Maybe it's because I find it tad bit sexist(on both sides) and I am an egalitarian.
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Leopejo
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby Leopejo » 2013-10-25, 10:48

Ahzoh wrote:Not really, I find grammatical gender has come more out of societal classing and stuff like that and less out of necessity.

There are very FEW benefits to knowing the gender of your speaker, and the rest is because of the society.

Maybe it's because I find it tad bit sexist(on both sides) and I am an egalitarian.

I suggest you to abandon Polish. Not only does Polish have genders (like many languages around the world), not only does Polish have animate gender (like other Slavic languages), but it has a unique virile gender too! How sexist THAT is!

All natural languages are like they are because of society, and that is their beauty. If you look for the most logical language, you better check conlangs. But please don't try to change natural languages because "there are very FEW benefits" to some of their features.

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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby Ahzoh » 2013-10-25, 13:14

Well, as I said I had hoped "one day" that world languages would abandon the notion of grammatical gender, for it's practically useless (can't you tell a male and a female by voice and by looking?)

But that said, I'm still wanting to learn Polish, I'm just raising a point/issue.
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby pittmirg » 2013-10-25, 13:20

I suggest you to abandon Polish. Not only does Polish have genders (like many languages around the world), not only does Polish have animate gender (like other Slavic languages), but it has a unique virile gender too! How sexist THAT is!


I don't know, in order to claim that such features are 'sexist' you'd probably have to prove that they correlate with or influence the society in a certain way. On the other hand, there have been societies speaking a genderless languages which are not exactly a feminist's dream (e.g. the Chinese) and there have been societies speaking a highly gender-marking language (e.g. the Iroquois) with a high position of women / relatively egalitarian.

Furthermore, Polish feminists like to endorse overtly marked feminine profession names (so it gets even 'worse'). Traditionally, Polish forms the names of many types of female profession practitioners by zero derivation, e.g. biolog (masculine, case-inflected, can denote a male biologist or one of unspecified gender) becomes biolog (feminine, uninflected, can only denote a female biologist). Women's right activist millieus propagate forms like biolożka (feminine, case inflected, can only denote a female biologist) instead, probably in order to persuade people that a woman can be a biologist. I have read the same tendency can be seen in French.

Well, as I said I had hoped "one day" that world languages would abandon the notion of grammatical gender, for it's practically useless (can't you tell a male and a female by voice and by looking?)


Can't you tell singular and plural merely by looking? Can't you tell present and past tense merely by context?

Grammatical gender (which often extends to inanimate nouns) also serves functions such as sentence disambiguation (when two nouns have a different gender, you instantly know which pronoun refers to which) and homophone disambiguation (in Polish: dwa barki 'two shoulders' or 'two cabinets', dwie barki 'two barges'; barki can have at least 3 meanings, the numeral dwie/dwa which inflects for gender partly disambiguates this).
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby Ahzoh » 2013-10-26, 4:19

Well, as I said I had hoped "one day" that world languages would abandon the notion of grammatical gender, for it's practically useless (can't you tell a male and a female by voice and by looking?)


Can't you tell singular and plural merely by looking? Can't you tell present and past tense merely by context?

Grammatical gender (which often extends to inanimate nouns) also serves functions such as sentence disambiguation (when two nouns have a different gender, you instantly know which pronoun refers to which) and homophone disambiguation (in Polish: dwa barki 'two shoulders' or 'two cabinets', dwie barki 'two barges'; barki can have at least 3 meanings, the numeral dwie/dwa which inflects for gender partly disambiguates this).[/quote]

I'm sorry, but you just can't compare looks/hearing with telling whether something happened now or awhile ago, because the former involves LOOKING and HEARING with your SENSES, the latter does involve context only and nothing to do with the senses.


also, this proves my point, why do INANIMATE objects need a gender? ONLY for disambiguity? then why not just have different words instead of referring to your cabinet as a she? also, if you didn't have grammatical gender, you wouldn't NEED more than one variation of the same pronoun.


but I digress, you can't change what's already there...
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby dorenda » 2014-02-09, 14:27

Jak się nazywa takie coś?
Przed chwilą tego używałam, jak myłam okna, i uświadomiłam sobie, że nie mam pojęcia jak to się nazywa, a też nie mogłam znaleźć.
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A jeszcze to:
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Czy to się nazywa "ircha"? Coś takiego znalazłam w Wikipedii.
To taka szmata bardzo miękkiej skóry (choć dziś zwykle robią syntetyczne), która może wchłaniać dużo wody, ale też lekko się ją wyciska.
W Holandii tradycyjnie się używa tych dwóch rzeczy (+ jeszcze gąbki) do mycia okien. :)
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby PiotrR » 2014-02-09, 14:31

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby dorenda » 2014-02-10, 22:30

Dzięki!
A to drugie to niewiadomo? :)
нехай мій гаманець порожній
моя дорога невідома
я стану вільним, подорожнім
найголовніше вийти з дому

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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby PiotrR » 2014-02-10, 23:08

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNO
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby dorenda » 2014-02-11, 20:51

Ścierka z mikrofibry to współczesny wariant tego co ja miałam na myśli, i czym moja babcia już myła okna. :)
нехай мій гаманець порожній
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby PiotrR » 2014-02-12, 19:28

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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby dorenda » 2014-02-13, 17:32

Mamy są nieodzowne! :) Dzięki.
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby Krzysiek_CL » 2014-02-17, 12:54

Cześć!
Nazywam się Cristóbal (Krzysztof po hiszpańsku) i jestem chilijczykiem.
Mam 27 lata.
Znam hiszpański, angielski i francuski.
Uczę się niemeckiego i polskiego

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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby dorenda » 2015-01-07, 22:30

Hej!
Cicho się zrobiło w tym kąciku! Czas na pytanie.

Przyjaciel cały czas mi mówi, że powinnam ćwiczyć tryb przypuszczający. Problem w tym, że nie potrafi mi wyjaśnić, co robię nie tak. A sama tego oczywiście też nie wiem, bo inaczej bym poprawnie mówiła.

Szukałam ćwiczeń w internecie, ale znalazłam tylko proste typu "uzupełnij zdanie: gdyby...", gdzie pierwsza/druga połowa zdania jest podana, a resztę mam wymyślić ja.

Czy znacie może jakieś ćwiczenia na ten temat w necie? Albo chociażby jakiś tekst wyjaśniający wszystkie możliwe sposoby używania trybu przypuszczającego z przykładami?
Przejrzałam już kilka gramatyk, ale nie znalazłam tam nic takiego, czego bym już nie wiedziała, z wyjątkiem tego, że istnieje druga forma trybu przypuszczającego ("byłbym zrobił"), który jednak za bardzo się nie używa...

Z góry wielkie dzięki za wszelką pomoc. :)
нехай мій гаманець порожній
моя дорога невідома
я стану вільним, подорожнім
найголовніше вийти з дому

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pittmirg
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby pittmirg » 2015-01-09, 21:11

Nie wiem, gdzie można by znaleźć taki opis; w końcu kto by się tam interesował składnią, z wyjątkiem „tag sie nie muwi, to pszeż rusycyzm”. Nie wydaje mi się, żeby to była jakaś bardzo problematyczna forma. Może mieszasz kolejność klityk. Użycie niby-subiunktywne ogarniasz (jak w zdaniu z żeby powyżej — o ile to można w ogóle nazwać trybem przypuszczającym)? Powiedz przyjacielowi, żeby wytknął jakieś twoje zdanie, które mu się nie podoba.
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dorenda
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Re: Polski Kącik / Polish Corner / Angolo Polacco

Postby dorenda » 2015-01-13, 22:39

pittmirg wrote:w końcu kto by się tam interesował składnią
Uczący się polskiego. :)
Nie wydaje mi się, żebym mieszała kolejność klityk, z wyjątkiem może w takich słówach jak "przyzwyczailibyśmy się", które są po prostu trudne do wymowy bez myślenia. :) No ale co ja wiem?

pittmirg wrote:Powiedz przyjacielowi, żeby wytknął jakieś twoje zdanie, które mu się nie podoba.
Już mu mówiłam, ale to nie pomogło. Może po prostu wbił sobie do głowy, że robię takie błędy, bo kiedyś robiłam... :)

Dzięki za odpowiedź, Pittmirg.
нехай мій гаманець порожній
моя дорога невідома
я стану вільним, подорожнім
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SomehowGeekyPolyglot
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How to deal with Polish Consonant Clusters?

Postby SomehowGeekyPolyglot » 2018-11-10, 5:50

I am not familiar with any language containing that many Consonant Clusters :).
What to do to be able to remember those of the Polish words that contain several consonants in a row?
- Any two-digit no. of lang. learned in rotation
- Botany (EN, DE, ...)


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