Polish Study Group

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-11-28, 22:04

2.E.5
► Show Spoiler


2.E.1
► Show Spoiler



Is the initial <p> pronounced in przepraszam?

User avatar
silmeth
Posts: 196
Joined: 2010-04-26, 17:35
Real Name: Benedykt Jaworski
Gender: male
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby silmeth » 2018-11-29, 9:45

księżycowy wrote:
► Show Spoiler


If you want to ask ‘who is this student?’, then: kim jest ta studentka? (the predicate, kto, in instrumental in copular sentence), if you want to ask ‘who is a student?’ (as in, please, define a student for me), then: kto to jest studentka? (here kto stays in nominative, and the pronoun to is neuter, because this is a A to jest B type sentence).

księżycowy wrote:Is the initial <p> pronounced in przepraszam?

Yes. In fast speech (and sometimes in Internet writing) you can meet simplifications like psze’aszam (where ’ stands for a glottal stop), pszaszam, and similar with elision of the middle consonant cluster/syllable (and explicitly marked devoicing of rz), but I’ve never met elision of the initial p.
polszczyzna jest moją mową ojczystą (pl), Is Gaelainn na Mumhan atá á foghlaim agam (ga) ((ga-M)), mám, myslím, dobrou znalost češtiny, rozumím a něco mluvím (cs), Jeg lærer meg bokmål på Duolingo (no-nb) (og eg ville lære nynorsk ein gong (no-nn))

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-11-29, 10:52

silmeth wrote:If you want to ask ‘who is this student?’, then: kim jest ta studentka? (the predicate, kto, in instrumental in copular sentence), if you want to ask ‘who is a student?’ (as in, please, define a student for me), then: kto to jest studentka? (here kto stays in nominative, and the pronoun to is neuter, because this is a A to jest B type sentence).

I guess I was wrong either way. :P

I was trying to formulate "who is that student", I was guessing I needed the demonstrative to agree with studentka I just wasn't sure of placement. And I completely forgot about kim, probably because I really haven't learned it quite yet.

Yes. In fast speech (and sometimes in Internet writing) you can meet simplifications like psze’aszam (where ’ stands for a glottal stop), pszaszam, and similar with elision of the middle consonant cluster/syllable (and explicitly marked devoicing of rz), but I’ve never met elision of the initial p.

Interesting, I thought I was picking up a trace of it on the audio, but I wasn't completely sure.

As always, dzięki! :)

User avatar
silmeth
Posts: 196
Joined: 2010-04-26, 17:35
Real Name: Benedykt Jaworski
Gender: male
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby silmeth » 2018-11-29, 11:13

księżycowy wrote:I was trying to formulate "who is that student", I was guessing I needed the demonstrative to agree with studentka I just wasn't sure of placement. And I completely forgot about kim, probably because I really haven't learned it quite yet.


Oh, I just realized the English question is ambiguous (and I don’t see a way to easily remove the ambiguity in English), and can be translated to Polish as:
kim jest ta studentka? (ta studentka is a subject and kto is a predicate, question about the predicate)
kto jest tą studentką? (kto is a subject, ta studentka is a predicate, question about the subject)

The first one would be asked if you wanted an answer like ‘that student is my friend’, ‘she is the president’s daughter’, ‘she is a programmer’… you ask the first one if you want to know some characteristics of the given person, eg. in ‘who is that student after lectures, what does she do for living?’ kim jest ta studentka po wykładach, jak zarabia na życie?

The second one would be asked if you wanted an answer of the type ‘Ann is that student’ – if you discuss some person, but you don’t know whom you’re talking about and you want to know the identity, eg. in ‘who is that student who left the lecture early?’ kto jest tą studentką, która wcześnie wyszła z wykładu?
polszczyzna jest moją mową ojczystą (pl), Is Gaelainn na Mumhan atá á foghlaim agam (ga) ((ga-M)), mám, myslím, dobrou znalost češtiny, rozumím a něco mluvím (cs), Jeg lærer meg bokmål på Duolingo (no-nb) (og eg ville lære nynorsk ein gong (no-nn))

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-11-29, 12:54

So......I'm switching my answer to kto to jest?
I've successfully opened up what is sure to be one of my first can of Polish worms. :lol:

That is interesting though. (I don't mean to dismiss your contribution. I'm just not there yet grammatically.) Dzięki! :)

EDIT: I figured I share the Quizlet "class" I'm creating as we go through First Year Polish. I thought it might be helpful to some. Native corrections are welcome too. I put the link in the first post.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-11-29, 23:14

2.E.2
► Show Spoiler


2.E.12
► Show Spoiler
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5159
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-11-30, 7:12

księżycowy wrote:nigdy -> Nigdy nie robię zakupów.


When the verb is negated the direct object takes the genitive.

Kto tu mieszka? Nikt tu nie mieszka.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-11-30, 10:22

Saim wrote:
księżycowy wrote:nigdy -> Nigdy nie robię zakupów.


When the verb is negated the direct object takes the genitive.

Dzięki!
I'm just glad I got the word order right. :P I wasn't sure if that's how that would (approximately) be said.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-12-01, 16:46

2.E.7
► Show Spoiler


2.E.9
► Show Spoiler
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-12-01, 17:02

Packet 2 No. 6
► Show Spoiler


Packet 2 No. 8
► Show Spoiler
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5159
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-12-01, 20:53

1. Nic nie robi? [Would it be possible to use pan in this question?]


Yes, why wouldn't it be? Just keep in mind that then the subject wouldn't be Marian Zieliński, it would be pan (unlike on/ona/ono, pan/pani can't be dropped and inferred from the conjugation; that is to say, nic nie robi is ungrammatical if the subject of robi is supposed to be pan).

[originally I had "he"]


AFAIK surnames only change for gender when the ending is adjective-like (-owy, ski, -ny). Then they also use the adjective declension paradigms (widzę pana Zielińskiego, widzę pani Tyszkowską; powiedziałem panu Zielińskiemu, powiedziałem pani Tyszkowskiej).
Last edited by Saim on 2018-12-01, 20:59, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-12-01, 20:58

I was asking if you could say Nic pan nie robi (which I'm guessing would be the word order), but you reminded me that that's a form of second person reference, not third person. :P

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5159
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby Saim » 2018-12-01, 21:09

księżycowy wrote:I was asking if you could say Nic pan nie robi (which I'm guessing would be the word order), but you reminded me that that's a form of second person reference, not third person. :P


That sentence is perfectly grammatical. I wouldn't say it's "the" word order, though, because nic could be in a couple of other places in the sentence: I'm not 100% sure what the default/most neutral order would be, but I have a feeling it's actually pan nic nie robi.

User avatar
silmeth
Posts: 196
Joined: 2010-04-26, 17:35
Real Name: Benedykt Jaworski
Gender: male
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby silmeth » 2018-12-01, 21:26

Saim wrote:That sentence is perfectly grammatical. I wouldn't say it's "the" word order, though, because nic could be in a couple of other places in the sentence: I'm not 100% sure what the default/most neutral order would be, but I have a feeling it's actually pan nic nie robi.


Actually I feel nic pan nie robi would be the default in that kind of sentence (even though if the subject changes, it certainly would be ty nic nie robisz, on nic nie robi, Jan nic nie robi, etc. and certainly not *nic ty nie robisz). I am not sure why though, and pan nic nie robi sounds quite natural to me too. :hmm:

Also I feel that pan nic nie robi moves emphasis from doing nothing to the subject of the doing nothing. Inni pracują, a pan nic nie robi (others work and you are doing nothing) vs nic pan nie robi, a tu trzeba działać (you are doing nothing while there’s need to act).
polszczyzna jest moją mową ojczystą (pl), Is Gaelainn na Mumhan atá á foghlaim agam (ga) ((ga-M)), mám, myslím, dobrou znalost češtiny, rozumím a něco mluvím (cs), Jeg lærer meg bokmål på Duolingo (no-nb) (og eg ville lære nynorsk ein gong (no-nn))

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-12-02, 12:21

Dzięki! :)

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-12-02, 20:35

Time for the last exercise I'm going to share from this unit (which I did as a writing assignment because I don't have a teacher/native to help me speaking wise):

Packet 2 No. 9
► Show Spoiler
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-12-03, 16:51

@Wiedziej:
tenor.gif
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 22890
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-03, 16:55

księżycowy wrote:@Wiedziej

;)

User avatar
księżycowy
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 12780
Joined: 2006-09-13, 23:51
Real Name: Paweł
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-12-03, 16:58

Nieważne... :pff:

vijayjohn
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 22890
Joined: 2013-01-10, 8:49
Real Name: Vijay John
Gender: male
Location: Austin
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Polish Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-12-03, 17:00

Ważne! :yep:


Return to “Polish (Polski)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest