How do I sound?

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Tomii515
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How do I sound?

Postby Tomii515 » 2008-08-31, 21:06

Hey everyone~

So, I wanted to know if when i speak in Polish, if my accent is bad, or good. Because I know Polish can be really hard to speak sometimes, so I wanted to know if I was doing ok, or bad, or good, etc. I only just started learning Polish, but I listen to some Polish music, so hopefully that helped my accent. Anyways, if some could, give me a couple sentences in Polish that I could record myself saying, and then post it here, as then you could tell me if it was good, bad, ok, etc?

Thanks in advance~~ :)

-Tommy
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BezierCurve
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Re: How do I sound?

Postby BezierCurve » 2008-09-01, 3:22

Hi, Tomii.

No problem, here you go (let's start with a simple one and make it harder gradually):

Jest bardzo ładna pogoda.
Siedzę sobie na trawie.
Uczę się języka norweskiego i obserwuję łabędzie.
Ktoś przyszedł z kosiarką i będzie strzygł trawę.
Lepiej pójdę się napić lemoniady, zanim zasypie mnie ściętymi źdźbłami.

If you need to check quickly the pronunciation of any word (or even a whole sentence) you can use that link:

http://www.ivosoftware.com/

Good luck!
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Re: How do I sound?

Postby pittmirg » 2008-09-01, 15:28

Ale trzeba jednak uważać z tymi syntezatorami. Wpisałem sobie miękki, miększy, najmiększy, i, odnośnie 1. słowa, jeden głos wymawia mi coś w stylu [mjɛŋkʔi] a drugi [miŋkʲi], zamiast normalnego [ʹmjɛŋkʲi] :D

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby BezierCurve » 2008-09-01, 18:18

Prawda. :yep:

Być może wynika to z narzucenia dodatkowo intonacji w zdaniu (którego syntezator się tam "dopatruje") - niektóre wyrazy są skracane, inne wydłużane i mocniej akcentowane.

W przypadku tekstu "Jest miękki. Jest miększy. Jest najmiększy." wychodzi to (moim zdaniem) trochę lepiej.
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Tomii515
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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Tomii515 » 2008-09-02, 20:40

I recorded myself, but... Where can I upload it so you could hear it? ^^;;
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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Kuba » 2008-09-03, 9:14

You can't upload it directly on unilang, you have to upload it on your own site or a site like putfile.com or similar and than put a link to it in your posting...
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Re: How do I sound?

Postby voron » 2008-09-03, 11:50

pittmirg wrote:zamiast normalnego [ʹmjɛŋkʲi]


Czy nie powinno być [ʹmʲɛŋkʲi] ? Uważałem, że spółgłoski wargowe zmiękczają się w polskim.

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby pittmirg » 2008-09-03, 13:18

Hm, to trochę zależy kogo zapytasz. Mnie się wydaje, że:

1) w moim idiolekcie pod względem fonetycznym <pi bi fi wi mi> to (przed samogłoską inną niż /i/) coś w rodzaju [pʲj bʲj fʲj vʲj mʲj], chociaż w szybszej mowie, zwłaszcza w niektórych zbitkach mogą się trafiać "czyste" spalatalizowane (łatwiejszy [waʹtfʲejʂɨ]).
W rosyjskim np. "пе бе ме" brzmią dla mnie inaczej niż polskie "pie bie mie".
A ponieważ ta palatalizacja przed /i/ i /j/ jest w pełni przewidywalna, często jej nie zapisuję. Jak chce się być bardzo ścisłym, może powinno się pisać [ʹmʲjɛŋkʲi].

2) pod względem fonemicznym, ja na pewno nie mam kontrastu pomiędzy /pj/ a /pʲ/, /bʲ/ a /bj/ itd. (a taki kontrast zdaje się istnieć w rosyjskim). Chociaż są ludzie, którzy z uporem twierdzą, że mają /mj/ w słowach typu "chemia", ale /mʲ/ w słowach typu "ziemia". Dla mnie te słowa się rymują, nie ma różnicy. Jako że nie mam takiego kontrastu (jak chyba większość mówiących :?:), więc uważam, że nie ma sensu postulować istnienia dodatkowych fonemów typu /mʲ/, wystarcza /mj/ na poziomie fonemicznym (brzytwa Ockhama ;)), które ewentualnie w wymowie może niekiedy przejawiać się jako [mʲ].

Zdaje się, że większość fonetyków jest podobnego zdania jak ja, ostatnio czytałem gdzieś, że oba te wyrazy wymawia się przeważnie z czymś w rodzaju [mʲja] w dzisiejszych czasach. Czyli nie ulegam jakimś złudzeniom.

O, tutaj:

http://poradnia.pwn.pl/lista.php?szukaj=chemia&kat=18

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Tomii515 » 2008-09-03, 22:13

thanks!~

http://media.putfile.com/polish-23

...be brutel o_<
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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Qrczak » 2008-09-03, 22:48

In ładna I did not hear the d.

You said /ut͡ʂɛ ɕɛ/ as /ut͡ʃɛ ʃɛ/, and later /ktɔɕ pʂɨʂɛt skɔɕarkɔ̃/ as /ktɔʃ pʃɛdw skɔʃarkɔ̃/.

You said łabędzie as łabędze, będzie as będze, napić as napic, and similarly later: your ś ź ć dź sound too close to s z c dz, or sometimes to sz ż cz dż. This is a common problem for foreigners speaking Polish.

The ł in forms like przyszedł, strzygł is not normally pronounced, except in very slow speech.

Lepiej pójdę and zanim zasypie should be accented on the penultimate syllable of each word, not on the last one.

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Tomii515 » 2008-09-04, 0:33

Thanks ^^

In English (or at least in US where i live), usually d's and t's before other consonants or at the end of a word or even sometimes between two vowels, it's pronounced like the glottal stop or /4/ (x-sampa, and id ont knwo the name...). If it actually pronounce the letters then, it makes you sound (to me) very cocky, althougbh more intelligent. I guess I'm not used to that and I didn't notice~

Oh, okay! Thanks. I'll try to listen to more native-polish speaking people speak polish to try to make the polatalized consonants actually sound palatalized ^_^

And as for the other two things, ill try to remember~

thanks so much :D
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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2008-09-10, 9:50

OK, this is my currect accent: (my standard pronunciation)

http://media.putfile.com/polishbygruszka


Another version, in which I try to denasalise final 'ę's more consequently and in which I try to pronounce ś, ź, ć, dź yet a little softer so that these sounds can't be confused with sz, ż, cz and dż.

http://media.putfile.com/polishbygruszka2

Please tell me which accent is better.

Someone told me that I should pronounce ć dź like in the first example and ś ź like in the second file, but please judge yourself.

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby voron » 2008-09-10, 10:49

Hey, I want to try it too! (Sorry Tomii for stealing your topic :))
Here's my recording: http://srpski.at.tut.by/voron_pogoda.mp3

I took into consideration your advice on palatalising labial consonants, I hope it has improved my accent.

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2008-09-10, 11:03

Concerning palatalisations: I'm not sure, if my [ʲ]s are real or just faked, but in fact that I just replance every [ʲ] by a normal [j], will anyone discover it by hearing or is the accustical difference to small to catch me?! :mrgreen:

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Kuba » 2008-09-10, 11:09

Not bad, Gruszka! Although both the ś ź and the ć dź in the first example is too palatal and not enough alveopalatal (a bit more in the direction Russian goes) for my taste... And one thing, unbelievable difficult for German speakers: More difference between voiced and unvoiced consonants at the beginning of words would be good. Especially in źdźbłami, which should be [ʑʥbwamʲi] but sounds like [ɕʨbwamʲi] in both examples. Generally I liked the second example more...

Voron, I'm stunned! Of course, you have the advantage of speaking a related language, nevertheless very good. Only one phrase seems a bit over the top: przyszedł z kosiarką sounds like [pʂɨʂɛdu̯ s kɔɕarkɔ̃], in everyday Polish you can pronounce it more relaxed as [pʂɨʂɛtskɔɕarkɔ̃]...
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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2008-09-10, 11:32

@ kuba

Thank you, but to my excuse I have to say that in German there aren't any onsets with 5 sounds, as you know, treating the affricate as two sounds. "źdźbł" should be considered a crime against humanity 8-)

i'm a bit surprised that you like the second version better, because i thought that in version 1 the soft sounds were alveo-palatal and in version 2 rather palatal, since the palatal "ch" I use in German is equal to my "ś" in version 2.

The problem about the affricates in version two is that in my ears they sound a little "genuschelt" (don't know the English word right now), rather like [cç] and [ɟʝ]
Don't know if Native Polish speakers have the same perception, but in order to avoid sounding like a little child I used to prefer the affricates of version 1 until now.

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Qrczak » 2008-09-10, 12:33

Gruszka wrote:Concerning palatalisations: I'm not sure, if my [ʲ]s are real or just faked, but in fact that I just replance every [ʲ] by a normal [j], will anyone discover it by hearing or is the accustical difference to small to catch me?! :mrgreen:

It is quite good but I do hear that they are a bit too long in lemoniady and mnie.

Indeed your first version is better. The second version sounds like someone with a lisp. Regarding the first version:

I did not hear t in jest, and d in pogoda is too fast or too weak: it sounds like a one-flap r.

You said siedzę as siedzi.

Final ę should be denasalized (or almost denasalized).

Przyszedł should be stressed on the first syllable, not on the second.

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Qrczak » 2008-09-10, 12:40

Kuba wrote:Voron, I'm stunned! Of course, you have the advantage of speaking a related language, nevertheless very good. Only one phrase seems a bit over the top: przyszedł z kosiarką sounds like [pʂɨʂɛdu̯ s kɔɕarkɔ̃], in everyday Polish you can pronounce it more relaxed as [pʂɨʂɛtskɔɕarkɔ̃]...

Indeed, and similarly strzygł: it could be pronounced simply [stʂɨk] (before a voiceless consonant as here).

Your y in lemoniady sounds a bit like yj.

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2008-09-10, 13:13

Qrczak wrote:Indeed your first version is better. The second version sounds like someone with a lisp.


hmm ok, I find it quite strange that Kuba has the opinion that the second version is better, whereas you think the frist one is better. The mentioned lisp refers to the (alveo)palatals in the second version, right? If I start to lisp alveolar sounds, then it's because my tongue's getting tired. 8-)

I did not hear t in jest, and d in pogoda is too fast or too weak: it sounds like a one-flap r.

The flapped "d" might be caused by the fact that I'm also learning Spanish. I will take care that I won't soften voiced plosives in Polish, only in Spanish. :yep:

You said siedzę as siedzi.

This may happen. Slip of the tongue.

Final ę should be denasalized (or almost denasalized).

Przyszedł should be stressed on the first syllable, not on the second.

[/QUOTE]

OK


Thanks a lot

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Re: How do I sound?

Postby Quetzalcoatl » 2008-09-10, 13:18

But all in all, even if I have a (small) accent, as long as I don't sound like a moron and Polish speakers are able to understand what I say without any problems, my pronunciation should be allright... I guess there are not many German native speakers, which speak Polish without an accent anyway... Right? :)


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