Strigo wrote:Because I can't note nasality as I note it in Portuguese.
Strigo wrote:ę : I know that final ę is pronounced like a simple e.
Strigo wrote:And it's pronounced as a nasal e in the other cases
Strigo wrote:(Is that nasal e similar to Portuguese e in gente?)
Strigo wrote:ą : I know it's a nasal o.
(Is it pronounced like õ in informações?)
Strigo wrote:ł : Is it pronounced like a "u"??? What are the differences between this letter and u?
Luis wrote:The only thing they got are 2 nasal vowels and they're not even used all the time
Luis wrote:Not that much really. "u" is a vowel. ł is a semivowel /w/, like the 'w' in English 'what' or the 'u' in Spanish 'bueno'.Strigo wrote:ł : Is it pronounced like a "u"??? What are the differences between this letter and u?
Luís wrote:The only thing they got are 2 nasal vowels
Luís wrote:Yes, it sounds as plain "e" (open) at the end of a word, though I think that's colloquial speech. I've heard people pronouncing it as a nasal at the end as well, namely in tapes for learning Polish...
Fenek wrote:Oh, come on, we're not so poor , in standard Polish there are only 2 nasal vowels, but in colloquial Polish you can encounter up to 6 nasal vowels.
Luís wrote:Or do you mean all vowels (a, e, i, o, u, y) can be nasal in Polish?
Fenek wrote:I can see you are interested. I can tell you more and record some soundclips for you, but a little bit later, if you don't mind. Or maybe wsz will be faster
Zaduma wrote:When you say TRAMWAJ (tram), you may pronounce the AM voice just like the Portuguese "ã", same situation you have while saying WŁĄCZAĆ (to turn on), this "Ą" can be (uncorrectly, but people do it) pronounced as "ã".
Fenek wrote: Very good examples! TRAMWAJ - I think the pronunciation [trãwaj] prevails, at least in Warsaw, [tramwaj] is rare. Do you agree, Zaduma? Both ways of pronunciation are correct. WŁĄCZAĆ - here only [włončać] is correct, but for certain reasons I won't mention now many people pronunce this word incorrectly as [włãčać] or, since nasal vowels are likely to be denasalized before cz(č), as [włančać].
Zaduma wrote:And, don't you think, Fenek, that it is funny that our Ą is a nasal O!
But let's see, Slavic languages had nasal vowels at first, then they almost all lost them (with Polish keeping 2) and now Polish is getting nasal vowels back?
Though the importance of the nasal vowels in Polish is not as big as in French or Portuguese. As far as I know (but please enlighten me ), there are no words in Polish that can be distinguished only by an oposition between nasal/oral vowel (like French 'beau' and 'bon' or Portuguese 'vi' and 'vim'). Considering that I suppose that if a foreigner always pronounced ę as /E/ ą as /O/ he'd still be perfectly understood.
Now, I have a doubt. As you say you tend to nasalise the vowels that are preceded by m and n, then you have a problem
Unless these cases are exceptions, how do you distinguish:
Panią and Paniom
or Studentką from Studentkom
Ah, and does that only apply to where you'd usually have a nasal vowel? I mean, ę before t is pronounced /En/, so in "student", I suppose the e doesn't get nasalised.
Zaduma wrote:If you say reka and not ręka (hand), someone could think you want to say rzeka (river)
Zaduma wrote:If you say mak and not mąk... well, mąka is a flour while mak is poppy... Mają mean they have and maja is just a declinated word maj (May)... Idą means they go while Ida is a femenine name...
Zaduma wrote:There is a big differrence in pronouncing Panią nad Paniom. The second one is not nasalized at all.
Luis wrote:Now that you mention it, the Polish ą does resemble a little bit the Portuguese ão (which is a nasal diphthong /6~w~/). If I had to say which Portuguese sound is closer to Polish ą I'd say this one, but we don't have open nasal 'o' anyway. Polish są and portuguese são (which not only look and sound alike, but mean the same) are an interesting example
Luis wrote:But since Fenek is busy maybe you could record your nasals wsz. I'd like to compare them with the Portuguese ones (specially nasal u and i) as we got them too.
Luis wrote:I do recall having a talk about the nasal i in words like "sim" or "mim" with my Polish friend here as she could pronounce them well and distinguish them from "mi" / "si" while her German room mate couln't and would just pronounce an /m/ at the end of the words. I assumed that's because her native language is Polish and once you know how to nasalise a vowel you can nasalise anything - So, I don't know if she uses it in normal speech. She's from the north (Gdańsk).
wsz wrote:But what do you mean? You don't if she uses what? Nasal vowels? Luis, you should know that we tend to pronounce words in an easy way. If it's easier for us to say nasal, we say it. If it's easier to say an M or N or just an oral vowel, we say it
wsz wrote:I wouldn't be so sure that we can nasalise anything
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