Pronounciation

Irrisim
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Pronounciation

Postby Irrisim » 2005-08-07, 10:06

Kaixo kaixo!
Does anyone know how to pronounce the basque letters?

Sami

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Zoroa
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Postby Zoroa » 2005-08-09, 8:47

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language#Phonology

If you have any question, please ask them..
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Irrisim
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Postby Irrisim » 2005-08-09, 11:17

Thank you.

Sami

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Zoroa
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Postby Zoroa » 2005-08-09, 16:33

http://www.buber.net/Basque/Euskara/lang4.html

This is a good site too !

Zoroa ;)
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nannerl
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Postby nannerl » 2007-10-22, 19:23

One question, please. In basque, is there any tonic syllable? I mean, in Catalan we have graphic accents (If in a word the last syllable is the tonic, we'll put an accent if this word ends in -vowel, -as, -es, -is, -os, -us, -en, -in, for example).
Thank you!

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Postby arabarra » 2007-10-23, 9:19

Actually, a good question. There is no way to establish where the tonic stress of a world lays in view of its writing. It's dependent of its function in the phrase, of the general intonation of the sentence, an even on the dialect. Biscayan dialect particularly has a very, hm, let's say "exotical" set of accentuation rules.

However, the general rule -in the practice of unified basque- is that words get a main tonic accent on their second syllable, and a second, somewhat smoother tonic accent on the last one. For instance, one would -normally- pronounce Ertzáintza, Batásuná (rather than Batasúna), lehendákarí, ikúrriná, pelótarí.... arábarrá


In any case, there is yet no rule from the Academy of the Basque Language regulating this issue (they have published a list with the official translation into Basque of the names of all the Popes of roman church, seemingly a much more interesting subject...)



cheers

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Postby nannerl » 2007-10-25, 16:50

Thank you very much, arabarra. You helped me a lot :) If you don't mind to answer this questions, can I know which languages do you speak? I'm surprised because I read you speaking perfectly in Catalan, English, you know Basque and if you live in Germany you have to speak Deutch too, don't you? I'm fascinated... I want to be like you! **
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Postby arabarra » 2007-10-25, 19:02

Oh, you are a very flattering quinceañero... But don't be so eager to be like me, just wait a -large- couple of years. Actually sometimes I wouldn't mind being like you, but I'm afraid the clock does not work in this direction. Damned entropy...

In any case and to answer your question (thank you for your interest) I've been studing many languages at different periods of my life: German, French, Dutch, Catalan, Japanese, Russian, and still a couple more... with different levels of succes, ranging between proficiency and shameful desertion. Obviously it would be wonderful if I'd retained a good command on all of them, but it is not the case. And not even my original goal. I'm just curious about languages, and curiosity it's one the vices into one should allways indulge...

Let me wish you good luck with my language. I bet you'll find pretty soon that Basque is actually a surprisingly easy to learn language. Different from romance languages, but easy in absolute terms... aurrera, neska!! (go for it, girl!!!)

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Postby kuneli » 2007-11-24, 0:13

Zoroa wrote:http://www.buber.net/Basque/Euskara/lang4.html

This is a good site too !

Zoroa ;)


Kaixo! Zer moduz? NI Danai naiz...and I'm a Greek trying to learn this exotic language. I would not say that I have any great difficulties with the Basc pronounciation exept the 2 s's = s/z. Well both s & z sound the same to me and beside this I've noticed that some basc people pronounce z as the spanish z ( like english th in think ). Are they native speaker or Basques with spanish as first language?I wonder because they are very fluent..every time I point it out to them, they say that they pronounce a basque z and not [θ], the are not conscious of what they pronounce.Would it be a big problem if I don't differentiate the 2 sounds? u see, in Greek we have only one s, not even sh...That's all, thank u in advance..

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Postby OrE » 2007-11-24, 10:14

The basque z is not [θ] anywhere. Its sound is like the English z in "zero". I think in Bizkaia -s- and -z- are pronounced almost the same, like s.

You may trouble with x, s and z; and also with tx, ts, tz.
x-> English "sh", french "ch" -> /ʃ/
s-> /s̺/
z-> like french "s" -> /s̻/

tx->/ʧ/
ts->/ʦ̺/
tz->/ʦ̻/

uh.. the difference between "s" and "z" is the position of the teeth. In /s̻/ the jaw is more outward.

I don't think it'd be that a big problem not differentiating them as in some regions (Bizkaia) they don't. I personally do and it sounds strange to me when I hear somebody don't differentiating them, but that's a matter of taste ;)
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Postby kuneli » 2007-11-24, 12:18

Muchas gracias por haver tratado ayudarme.It's not a matter of tast, what concerns me. it's practical. I don't hear the difference :? / :( snif-snif...thank you anyway..Is Basque you native language? It's very nice and it sound wonderfull, like spanish.

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Postby Zoroa » 2007-11-24, 19:02

In the northern part of the Basque country, s tends to be pronounced like x (euxkara, itxaxo, ...)

Zoroa ;)
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Postby kuneli » 2007-11-24, 19:08

thank you anyway. I hope I"ll find the way even whithout differentiating the 2 sounds

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loqu
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Postby loqu » 2007-12-08, 16:27

I have a little doubt about the Basque phonetics whose answer I haven't found through the web.

All the Iberian Romance languages (Portuguese, Galician, Spanish, Catalan and their dialects) have a couple of allophones for b, d and g, one plosive and one fricative: [b] and [β], [d] and [ð], [g] and [ɣ].

How is the situation in the Basque language? Is it like the other Iberian languages, with these fricative/approximant allophones, or is it more like French, which only have the plosive varieties?

Thanks :)
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Postby arabarra » 2007-12-09, 15:39

Aupa loqu!

I´m not that good in phonetics... but your question sounds interesting.

I was not aware that in Spanish we have different versions of b, d and g... perhaps can you expose a couple of examples?

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loqu
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Postby loqu » 2007-12-09, 16:21

arabarra wrote:Aupa loqu!

I´m not that good in phonetics... but your question sounds interesting.

I was not aware that in Spanish we have different versions of b, d and g... perhaps can you expose a couple of examples?


Of course :)

b (v), d and g are plosives (like in Italian or French) at the very beginning of a sentence or a phonic group, and after plosive consonants. They are fricative when they are between vowels. For example:

bota ['bota], embestir [embes'tiɾ] vs. abeto [a'βeto], roba ['roβa]
decir ['deθiɾ], andar [an'daɾ] vs. lado ['laðo], modesto [mo'ðesto]
gato ['gato], anguila [aŋ'gila] vs. agua ['aɣwa], cogote [ko'ɣote]

This distinction occurs in Portuguese, Galician and Catalan (Central, Valencian and Balearic) as well.

Does that occur in Basque too? :)
Dir la veritat sempre és revolucionari.

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Postby arabarra » 2007-12-09, 16:57

O my good :shock:

I've never thougt of that! I mean, after reading your message I've been listening to myself for half an hour mumbling "a-be-to, ro-ba, ba-rro", trying to tell the difference between the allophones of "b" and... well, I failed miserably , the distinction is too subtle for me :(.

In any case, in Hegoalde (the south of the Basque Country) the pronuntiation patterns for b,d,g are commonly presented as equivalent to castilian ones. I think my "d" at the beginning of the word and my "d" between vowels in Basque are very alike (but then, I was convinced so were they in castilian :? ).

For Iparralde (the northern part), the phonetic dissimilitudes are so clear in other aspects ( asirated h, ü sound, different accent), that -i've never payed attention nor noticed any "funny effect" with the b,d, and g... but I promise to listen more carefully in the future :wink:. In the meantime, let's hope that other basque speakers in the forum can give you a sounder help...

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nannerl
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Postby nannerl » 2008-03-11, 19:41

A little question about pronunciation: When is there a diphtong in Basque? For example, in Spanish the word "Valencia" has diphtong in its "ia", but in Catalan we write "València", and we don't do any diphtong.
I ask it because I don't know how to say Valentzia in Basque, [Ba'lentzi'a] or ['Balentzia].
And, how do you pronounce words which have only two syllabes?
Thanks! :)
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arabarra
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Postby arabarra » 2008-03-12, 12:05

Kaixo nanerl,

long time no see! But I see your interest in Basque is proceeding well... Well, accent rules are very dependent on the speaker (dialect, age) and even on the situation.
Differrent rules appy for a conversation between friends and for a news comentator on TV.

Traditionally, ascending diptongues do not exist in Basque: the Latin "gloria" was introduced into Basque as "gloría". Actually, the dialectal tendence is to make the separation of the two vowels even clearer by setting a consonant in the middle, giving "gloríxa" (Biscaye) or "gloríya". Batua form is "gloría", though. -ua is also seperated: "head" is "buru". "The head" is "burúa" (or even buruba to some speakers that choose to pinpoint the diptongue breakdown. It applyes also for -io, most frequently encountered in words loaned from Spanish: "de-sí-o", "me-dí-o", "soluzío" etc (with spoken counterparts "desino" (B), "desiyo" (G)



Descending diptongues are conserved: eus-ka-ra, ai-pa-tu, ja-rrai-ki. In this case, even words that originally weren't diptongs -as they had an aspired h in the middle- tend to be pronounced as diptongues nowadays: "nahi" is systematically pronounced as nahi in the southern part of the Basque Country.

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Postby arabarra » 2008-03-12, 12:12

oh, I forgot your precise question : Valencia!

I would probably say Ba-lén-tzi-á. But many speakers would just transliterate the Spanish form: Ba-lén-tzia. Both forms are common and to my eyes -and ears- acceptable. The first option corresponds to a polished way, the second one to informal pronounciation.


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