Questions on Basque

arabarra
Posts: 501
Joined: 2007-06-08, 14:16
Gender: male
Location: Basel
Country: CH Switzerland (Schweiz / Suisse / Svizzera / Svizra)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby arabarra » 2016-07-21, 20:37

So.. the gentil thought that the christian was far away because the sound of the ring was quiet (since it was in the pile of wool/fleece/whatever that is) and then he left the cave to check the pile of sheep-fur (which is outside?), he shook it and then ran away? What an odd fellow...


:lol:

well.... yes. That is the meaning of the sentences, more or less. Grammatically it's very clear, so no confusion there. But the logics of the story... I also don't get it very well, to be honest. To me, it sounds like my grandmother telling me a tale that she knows very well, and forgetting some part of the story, so that it still makes sense in her head, but an external listener will just frown... "wait, what was that?"

EDIT

Actually, the way I know the story of Tantalo, the idea is that the prisoner would hide below the wood, making the giant (gentil in this version) think the ring was outside. When the giant opens the door, the prisoner would get away running like hell. But the giant would hear the "hemen nago" yelling and run after the escaping prisoner. He (the prisoner) would eventually cut his own finger with the ring and throw it down a cliff or into a river, and the giant would go after the ring, getting drowned... so that's the logic series of events. The sentence " Orduan, jentilak larru pila astindu eta lasterrari emanda jesus batean handik alde egin omen zuen" breaks everything down... why the hell would the gentil shake the pile of wool if he thought the christian was far away?? I think the narrator just made a mistake.

EDIT 2

... by the way, the story as I know it should have the element of the captor being blind (that's why the ring was necessary for him to check that the prisoner was still there, and that's how he can get tricked into throwing himself down a cliff!). In some versions, the prisoner has blinded the captor after being taken, in others he was just blind beforehand. I have the impression that the narrator is mixing the story with the (similar) one of Polyphemius, were the prisoner would get under a piece of wool/fleece to make the captor believe he was a sheep. The blinded captor was supposed to be on the entry of the cave/house, blocking it and controlling that only his sheep could get past the gate by passing his hand on the back of the animals. The prisoner, disguised as a sheep, can thus scape.

crush
Posts: 176
Joined: 2013-06-03, 5:28
Country: CN China (中国)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby crush » 2016-07-22, 9:43

Ah, your version makes much more sense. There doesn't seem to be any mention of the captor being blind, he just put a magic ring on the christian's finger so that he wouldn't be able to run away. The gentil does end up jumping down a cliff and drowning, though. I think changing the "jentilak" in "jentilak larru pila astindu eta lasterrari emanda jesus batean handik alde egin omen zuen" to "kristauak" it'd make a bit more sense. I'll also have to check out the Polyphemius story :D
Guk euskaraz, zuk zergatik ez?

arabarra
Posts: 501
Joined: 2007-06-08, 14:16
Gender: male
Location: Basel
Country: CH Switzerland (Schweiz / Suisse / Svizzera / Svizra)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby arabarra » 2016-07-22, 13:43

yes, Polyphemus is a classical story. It appears with this name in the Odyssey (and the captives are Odysseus and his full crew), but I've heard many variations from different cultures. I think the Basque is the only one with the yelling ring, but I couldn't assure it.

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5017
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby Saim » 2018-06-28, 13:06

Could someone help me parse this sentence?

Nork bota duen badio, bi puntu.
If you say who dealt it, double points.

If who "lets it out", two points? Why is it nork here and not zuk?

crush
Posts: 176
Joined: 2013-06-03, 5:28
Country: CN China (中国)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby crush » 2018-06-30, 5:20

Nork seems like the subject of "bota duen", "nork bota duen" -> "who threw it".

Badio is a form of esan, not the nor-nori-nork auxiliary. Ba-dio -> if (he/she) says. I'm not sure why that's not diozu (you say), though. Maybe it's similar to:
"Norbaitek nork bota duen badio, bi puntu"
Guk euskaraz, zuk zergatik ez?

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5017
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby Saim » 2018-08-23, 12:54

Hara zer aurkitu dudan.
Look what I found.

What is the meaning of "dudan" in this sentence? Is it dut + an?

crush wrote:Nork seems like the subject of "bota duen", "nork bota duen" -> "who threw it".

Badio is a form of esan, not the nor-nori-nork auxiliary. Ba-dio -> if (he/she) says. I'm not sure why that's not diozu (you say), though. Maybe it's similar to:
"Norbaitek nork bota duen badio, bi puntu"


I forgot to thank you for this, eskerriko asko!

crush
Posts: 176
Joined: 2013-06-03, 5:28
Country: CN China (中国)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby crush » 2018-08-23, 18:59

Saim wrote:Hara zer aurkitu dudan.
Look what I found.

What is the meaning of "dudan" in this sentence? Is it dut + an?

Yep, when you add something to the end of -t, it turns into -da (how would you say -tn anyway? ;) ). And i'm not sure how to explain it as i don't know the exact rules, but often when you have words like "what", "who", "why", etc. in the middle of a phase, you'll use the -n form of the verb, e.g.:
Begira zer egin duguN eskolan! -> Look what we did at school!
Ez dakit nor dEN. -> I don't know who (that person) is.
Jakin nahi nuke zer esan nahi duEN. -> I'd like to know what it means.
Ezin dut sinetsi nor deitu berria diDAN! -> I can't believe who just called me!

EDIT: And another example of -t to -da is in the -(e)la form:
Uste dut jada ikusi dudala. -> I think (that) i've already seen it.

Saim wrote:I forgot to thank you for this, eskerriko asko!

Ez horregatik!
Guk euskaraz, zuk zergatik ez?

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5017
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Poznań
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby Saim » 2018-08-23, 19:13

crush wrote:Yep, when you add something to the end of -t, it turns into -da (how would you say -tn anyway? ;) ). And i'm not sure how to explain it as i don't know the exact rules, but often when you have words like "what", "who", "why", etc. in the middle of a phase, you'll use the -n form of the verb, e.g.:
Begira zer egin duguN eskolan! -> Look what we did at school!
Ez dakit nor dEN. -> I don't know who (that person) is.
Jakin nahi nuke zer esan nahi duEN. -> I'd like to know what it means.
Ezin dut sinetsi nor deitu berria diDAN! -> I can't believe who just called me!

EDIT: And another example of -t to -da is in the -(e)la form:
Uste dut jada ikusi dudala. -> I think (that) i've already seen it.


That was really helpful, mila esker! :D

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 22307
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Real Name: Da
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby linguoboy » 2018-08-23, 19:18

crush wrote:(how would you say -tn anyway? ;)

Ask the Icelanders!
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

crush
Posts: 176
Joined: 2013-06-03, 5:28
Country: CN China (中国)

Re: Questions on Basque

Postby crush » 2018-08-23, 19:27

Saim wrote:That was really helpful, mila esker!

Ez horregatik, i'm just happy to see people studying Basque :)

linguoboy wrote:
crush wrote:(how would you say -tn anyway? ;)

Ask the Icelanders!

You can say something like dutn (with no vowel after it)? I'd love to hear a recording of that!
Guk euskaraz, zuk zergatik ez?


Return to “Basque (Euskara)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests