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ikr
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Postby ikr » 2004-04-20, 21:21

Kaixo!

pa-integral wrote:Gordezazu zeure burua

I'm not completely sure, but I think that the meaning of this sentence is "Hide Yourself". The right spelling would be "Gorde ezazu zeure burua", and in basque is often used "neure/zeure/bere... buru" for "myself/yourself/himself...". Anyway Zoroa will know it better.

Agur :wink:
Izena duen guztia omen da

pa-integral

Postby pa-integral » 2004-04-23, 23:54

I'm gonna translate this story:

Ezagutzen al dituzu Blas eta Toribio? Bi lagun dira eta Donostiako Amara Berrian bizi dira. Blas mutil gaztea da oraindik eta argal samarra, Toribiok, ordea, berrogeita hamar urte ditu gutxi gora-behera eta nahiko gizena da. Lantoki berean egiten dute lan. Lantokiaren izena "ZURGIN S.A." da. Hortik ezagutzen dute elkar. Hamalau langile dabiltza lantegi horretan; txikia da, beraz. Muebleak, haltzariak, egiten dituzte.

Do you know Blas and Toribio? They are two friends and they live in the Donostian New [i]Amara*. Blas is still a young boy and quite thin, however Toribio is fifty aproximately and quite fat. They work at his work place. It is called "CARPENTER S.A.". They meet each other there. There are fourteen workers in this work place; it's small, thus. They make furniture. [/i]

*What is 'Amara'?


Toribio lantegiko gerente trebea da eta Blas errepresentantea. Hori dela eta, kanpoan ibiltzen da Blas askotan: Frantzian, Ingalaterran, Holandan eta abar. Joan den egunean, ordea, ez zen kanpora joan: Aurrezki Kutxa batean kreditu batzuk eskatu behar zituen eta Donostian bertan gelditu zen.

Toribio is a skilful manager and Blas is the representative. That means he works often abroad: in France, England, Holland, etc. One day, however, he was not abroad: he asked for a credit at a Savings Bank and he stayed in Donostia.

- abar = etc?
- hori dela eta = ?



(Unfinished)

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Zoroa
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Postby Zoroa » 2004-04-26, 9:43

Hi folks I am back !

I'll answer quickly to your questions then check whether your translation is okay.

As ikr put it, the translation of xxxself is done with nire, zure, eta agar(hehe)... buru(a).

Amara is a neighbourhood of Donostia. Amara Berria is a new neighbourhood in the outskirts if I remember well.

Agar means "what is left, remnant". Eta agar = etc.. . Eta agar eta agar means and so on and so forth. The other meaning of agar is a branch.

Hori dela eta : because of this, on this account.

Zoroa ;)
Deviens qui tu es !
Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

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Postby Zoroa » 2004-04-26, 15:09

Kaixo lagunok,

I read your translation :

*The word for furniture is altzariak. I don't remember the word muebleak (but I don't know every word...).

*Joan den egunean : litt. in the day that has gone : last day.

*kreditu batzuk : he asked for some credits (i dunno whether it's better to use credit in sing or plural in English)

Zoroa ;)
Deviens qui tu es !

Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

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Zoroa
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Postby Zoroa » 2004-04-28, 12:00

Here is a link to traditional Basque songs, not written in batua though. Just have a look !

http://jesponde.free.fr/paysbasque/chan ... cipal.html

Zoroa ;)
Deviens qui tu es !

Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

pa-integral

Postby pa-integral » 2004-04-28, 14:01

Zoroa wrote:Here is a link to traditional Basque songs, not written in batua though. Just have a look !

http://jesponde.free.fr/paysbasque/chan ... cipal.html

Zoroa ;)

Nice ;) I didn't listen to any of those songs before... not even at Basque class in Barcelona.

The only traditional Basque songs I have been listening to is Oskorri, not bad.

pa-integral

Postby pa-integral » 2004-04-28, 14:43

Second part

Eguerdi aldean kalean zihoan oinez eta... hara! Toribio ikusten du mahai batean eserita bermut bat hartzen. Harritua gelditu zen Blas, Toribio oso gutxitan ateratzen baita lantokitik. Egunon esatera hurbiltzen da eta orduan hura ez dela Toribio konturatzen da.

In midday somewhere's walking in the street and... there! He sees Toribio, sitting on a table, having a 'bermut'*. Blas got astonished, Toribio hardly ever gets out from work. He comes closer to say 'good day' and tells him what he found out.

Ez zen Toribio baina Toribioren antz izugarria zuen: ilea zuen diferente samarra eta gainera pajarita gorri bat zuen lepoan; gainerakoak, bekokia, sudurra, begiak, kokotza... den-denak Toribiorenak bezalakoak ziren. Baita betaurrekoak ere! "Toribioren anaia izango da" pentsatu zuen Blasek berehala eta horrela galdetu zion gizonari:

He was not Toribio but someone very similar to him: he got his hair quite different and also a red 'pajarita' on his neck; The rest, face, nouse, eyes, chin... Anyway* they were all similar to Toribio's. Even his glasses! "Must he be Toribio's brother?" Blas soon thought, so he asked the man:

*I didn't find den-denak in the dictionary. I guessed it means 'anyway'.

ikr
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Postby ikr » 2004-04-30, 16:24

Kaixo!
Zoroa wrote:Here is a link to traditional Basque songs, not written in batua though. Just have a look !

http://jesponde.free.fr/paysbasque/chan ... cipal.html

Zoroa

They're nice. There is another place with a lot of traditional basque songs. http://www.terra.es/personal6/personal1 ... estiak.htm.
As for Basque Folk, I like Mikel Laboa very much, but the basque music I use to hear is somewhat more modern.

Agur :wink:
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ikr
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Postby ikr » 2004-04-30, 16:43

Galde bat gehiago; I've listened in a lot of songs (from certain bands), that the 's' letter is often pronounced as something like 'sh'. So I can hear some words sounding like "Euxkal", "exan", "bexte", "ixil", "ixpilu", "xekretu", "ikaxi" ... (for Euskal,esan,beste...). Now these are my doubts:
    What is the right sound for 's'? Is this 'sh'-like?
    If it was, now I can't notice the difference between 's' and 'x'. Is there some difference?

Eskerrik asko :wink:
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Postby Zoroa » 2004-05-02, 12:56

Well some things sounded weird to me.

I think that eguerdialdean should be written in a single word, for alde is there a suffix. And it means : around noon.

Ziho means grease, thus zihoan in the grease ? I don't see any verb. Maybe the verb was zebilen : he walked.

Bermut is well, I think you should have guessed, a vermouth.

Baita means also.

There is a missing auxiliary in the second sentence (zen).

eta orduan hura ez dela Toribio konturatzen da : I cannot explain that sentence : and Toribio realize that that was not so, then (he realize there was sth wrong, but shouldn't it be ordenan... ?).

The translation of the 2nd sentence is okay . I think you get the right meaning of the words.

Den denak is like dena den : it means anyway, you guessed it right !

Zoroa (very tired, my Basque is rusting...)
Deviens qui tu es !

Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

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Postby Zoroa » 2004-05-02, 12:58

Ikr, this is a language weakening. The s shoulf be like a normal s, but you sometimes hear sth between s and x (euxko, itsaxo). I can't explain why but it iften happens in hegoalde.

Zoroa ;)
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Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

Guest

Postby Guest » 2004-05-06, 11:29

Zoroa wrote:I can't explain why but it iften happens in hegoalde.

Zoroa ;)

Iparraldean ez?

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Postby Zoroa » 2004-05-11, 7:59

Iparraldean edo Hegoaldean dagoen ala ez zalantzan nago. "Ts"-en ordez "tx" Donostian entzun dela uste dut, baina ez nago ziur... egiaztatu behar dut.

Zoroa ;)
Deviens qui tu es !

Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

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Postby Zoroa » 2004-05-19, 11:46

Well I have noticed that this language modification happens in some southern dialects such as in that song (lau teilatu by Itoiz)

http://mipagina.euskaltel.es/kepa/lautew.htm

For instance you have goxo instead of gozo.

Zoroa ;)
Deviens qui tu es !

Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

ikr
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Postby ikr » 2004-05-25, 21:31

Kaixo!

I think goxo is gozo using an affective form, as it sometimes happens with txiki->ttiki, bihotz->bihotx... In this song 'eskuetan' sounds a bit like 'exkuetan'(as long I remember), that is an example of what I meant.

By the way, nice song, Itoiz's Lau Teilatu. I like Itoiz very much, but I don't know what does this name 'Itoiz' means...

Agur :wink:
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Postby Zoroa » 2004-05-26, 6:31

Yes it happens in Basque : this is the lenification of the consonnants to make affective forms.

By the way, itoi is a drop. Itoiz means "drop by drop" when something is oozing... :p

Zoroa ;)
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Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

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Postby alois » 2004-06-05, 22:19

Hello, how are you guys learning Basque?

I sympathize a lot with Basque language and culture, maybe because I met an Argentinean girl here in Brazil who is daughter of a Basque man. Besides of Portuguese, she speaks Basque very well and she is planning a visiti to the Basque country.

But I have a doubt: how much are the Basque dialects (or languages) mutually intelligible?
Last edited by alois on 2005-02-26, 22:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Zoroa
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Postby Zoroa » 2004-06-07, 16:16

Hi Hefestos !

I am lucky to have a Basque grandpa who lives next door and I learnt much when spending many summers there. I also read a bit in Basque and listen to Basque music.
For the dialects, well I dunno them all but there surely are seven dialects !!!! The main differences are between North and South and maybe with the dialects from the region called Soule in France. To unite Basque, there is a formal language you learn called batua (the united). But if you wish to, we can teach you !!!

Zoroa ;)
Deviens qui tu es !

Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"

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Postby alois » 2004-06-07, 22:27

Zoroa wrote:If you wish to, we can teach you !!!


Hi, Zoroa!

Thank you very much for the purpose, but I think it is not the proper time to start learning it. Firstly, I want to improve both my Chinese and French. I hope it'll not take more than 6 months and after that, I will surely start with it.

What's is the Basque grammar like? Does it have cases, genders... I heard that it is a hard language (besides of being an isolated one)...
Last edited by alois on 2005-02-26, 22:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Zoroa » 2004-06-07, 22:50

Trying to summarize Basque grammar won't be easy. But in short :

-Basque has many cases amongst which many are ancient postclitics prépositions

-The Basque verbal system uses mainly participles plus auxiliaries. Only a few verbs are conjugated without auxiliary. The main feature (and one of the hardest) is that the pronouns merge in the auxiliary.

ex : nik kotxea mutilari eman diot : I have given the car to the boy. The auxiliary diot can be described as :

d(present tense) i(root) o(to him) (t=I in ergative case because it's a transitive verb). The direct complement is meat by its absence within the structure of the auxiliary.

-verbs that conjugate have two tenses and two "aspects" : direct and potential ("I can do this").

-the sentence structure is SOV for affirmative sentences and S neg V O for negative sentences.

Zoroa ;)
Deviens qui tu es !

Nietzsche "Ainsi parlait Zarathoustra"


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