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Car
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Car » 2018-11-26, 21:26

IpseDixit wrote:
Car wrote:Grazie mille, leggerò gli articoli più tardi. Era su "alla" vs. "in", scusa1 per non aver esplicarmi essermi spiegata2 bene, ma (comunque)3 anche devo anche imparare di più sull'uso dei passati.


1) "Scusi" è troppo formale per un forum. ;)

2) "To explain" si dice "spiegare". "Esplicare" è arcaico.

3) "Ma comunque" suona leggermente meglio in quella frase piuttosto che solo "ma" (almeno a mio avviso). Tuttavia "ma" da solo non è sbagliato.

Grazie!
Please correct my mistakes!

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Ser
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Ser » 2018-12-21, 19:22

I'm working on a conlang that is basically French but historically heavily influenced by the Florentine language. I have a few questions about cui.

Among speakers who only or mostly speak something close to standard Italian (many people these days), how often are the following standard constructions used? Are there non-standard constructions that also get used instead of these? (I'm not talking about constructions with quale, which are usually even more formal...)

il mondo (a) cui appartengo
il libro di cui ti parlavo
il ragazzo la cui sorella si chiama Carmela

Is it possible among some of such speakers, for example, to say "il mondo al che appartengo" or "il ragazzo che la (sua) sorella si chiama Carmela"?

IpseDixit

Re: Discussion Group

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-12-21, 20:32

Ser wrote:Among speakers who only or mostly speak something close to standard Italian (many people these days), how often are the following standard constructions used?


I would say almost always

Are there non-standard constructions that also get used instead of these?


I can't think of any

(I'm not talking about constructions with quale, which are usually even more formal...)


I'm not sure they're more formal. I would say they're just less used nowadays. They don't really give me an idea of formality to me.

Is it possible among some of such speakers, for example, to say "il mondo al che appartengo" or "il ragazzo che la (sua) sorella si chiama Carmela"


If there's one thing I've learned is that it's always best to not generalize on the entire Italian-speaking population, nonetheless I've never ever heard someone use such a construction and I'd be extremely surprised if I heard a native speaker say something like that.

il libro di cui ti parlavo


It's also very common to say il libro che ti dicevo

---

As a rule of thumb, I would say that preposition + cui sounds totally fine to me, whereas article + cui might sound a bit stilted in an informal setting therefore I'd rephrase the sentence in another way so I don't have to use it. E.g:

"il ragazzo la cui sorella si chiama Carmela" ---> "il ragazzo che ha una sorella di nome Carmela"

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Ser
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Ser » 2018-12-21, 20:47

Thank you.

Do you happen to know of any book in Italian/English/French (but not German) about non-standard grammar in, you know, standard-ish Italian? Grammatical features of colloquial Italian.

IpseDixit

Re: Discussion Group

Postby IpseDixit » 2018-12-22, 11:57

Ser wrote:Thank you.

Do you happen to know of any book in Italian/English/French (but not German) about non-standard grammar in, you know, standard-ish Italian? Grammatical features of colloquial Italian.


Nope. In fact, if you find one, let me know, I'd be curious to read it.

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Massimiliano B
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Massimiliano B » 2018-12-22, 12:50

Ser wrote:Is it possible among some of such speakers, for example, to say "il mondo al che appartengo" or "il ragazzo che la (sua) sorella si chiama Carmela"?



"Il mondo al che appartengo" is not possible to say. You'll say "Il mondo a cui/cui/ al quale appartengo".

The second sentence is ungrammatical, but sometimes it's possible to hear such kind of construction.

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Car
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Car » 2019-03-01, 11:52

Che vuol dire "prendere il senso"? Grazie.
Please correct my mistakes!


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