Translations/Questions

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keramus
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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby keramus » 2015-10-23, 15:42

Dear members

I want to translate this sentence into Italian:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism
Marx's criticism of Hegel asserts that Hegel's dialectics go astray by dealing with ideas, with the human mind.

My attempt:
Marx critica Hegel e afferma che la dialettica di Hegel vaga occupandosi di idee e la mente umana.

Is my translation correct?
If it's not , what would a native speaker suggest?

Thank you in advance.

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2015-10-23, 23:22

keramus wrote:Thank you.

I would be glad if native speakers gave their opinion about my translation.


OldBoring is right. "Peccato che" needs in this case the present subjunctive.



keramus wrote:Dear members

I want to translate this sentence into Italian:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism
Marx's criticism of Hegel asserts that Hegel's dialectics go astray by dealing with ideas, with the human mind.

My attempt:
Marx critica Hegel e afferma che la dialettica di Hegel vaga occupandosi di idee e la mente umana.

Is my translation correct?
If it's not , what would a native speaker suggest?

Thank you in advance.


I would translate not in a literal way:

Marx, criticando Hegel, afferma che la dialettica di quest'ultimo si perda dietro a idee e a costruzioni della mente umana.

Or

Marx afferma che la dialettica di Hegel si perda dietro a idee e a costruzioni della mente umana.
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby keramus » 2015-10-23, 23:52

Thank you.
Would you please tell me your opinion about the question before you answered?
I mean pity that my daughter ......

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby Massimiliano B » 2015-10-24, 8:32

keramus wrote:Thank you.
Would you please tell me your opinion about the question before you answered?
I mean pity that my daughter ......


"Peccato che" or "E'/era/è stato un peccato che" is followed by a congiuntivo. You can use "congiuntivo presente": "E' un peccato che mia figlia viva a 5000 km da me" (my daughter now lives 5000 km away from me); "congiuntivo passato": "E' un peccato che mia figlia sia arrivata tardi alla cerimonia" (this indicates a past action); "congiuntivo imperfetto": "(Era un) peccato che mia figlia abitasse a 5000 km da me" (this is a past condition; it means that now she does not live 5000km away from me); "congiuntivo trapassato": "(Era un) Peccato che mia figlia non fosse ancora arrivata quando siamo partiti" (Congiuntivo trapassato here refers to an action which precedes another past action).
The last two sentences requires, before "peccato", a past tense (indicativo passato, indicativo imperfetto, etc..); but you can use "the indicativo presente" in order to indicate that it was a pity and it is still a pity.
Dette er nemlig Formelen, som beskriver Selvets Tilstand, naar Fortvivlelsen ganske er udryddet: i at forholde sig til sig selv, og i at ville være sig selv grunder Selvet gjennemsigtigt i den Magt, som satte det. (This is namely the formula, that describes the condition of the self, when despair is completely eradicated: by relating itself to itself, and by willing to be itself, the self is grounded transparently in the power which constituted it) (Søren Kierkegaard, The sickness unto death)

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby hashi » 2016-01-19, 8:04

Ciao a tutti :D

I have a question that I'm having a little trouble with in Italian. When you use two verbs together, and the second verb is the infinitive form, I never know what preposition I'm supposed to use. I've seen di, per, a used before (I think?) as well as no preposition at all. Are there any rules/guidelines that govern which I should be using?

For example:

io tento _____ cantare
io aspetto _____ uscire
io spero _____ vederlo

etc...

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby Koko » 2016-01-21, 3:11

Salve Hashi!

While some rules do exist, it usually depends on the verb. For example, tentare requires "di + infinitive" but provare requires "a + infinitive" (both mean "to try (to)").

Here's a few though:

1. when the subject of a subordinate clause is the same as the main clause, replace conjuctive with "di + infinitive"
pe, "Spero di vederlo." (I hope I can/will see it)

2. if the verb has to do with hope, desire or expectation, you generally should use "di" (exception: volere which takes only the bare infinitive)
pe, "Mi ha detto di desiderare di andare a museo." (She told me she wants to go the museum.)

3. "per" is used for purpose
pe, "Si lavora per guadagnersi da vivere." (One works to make money.)

I've found though that the preposition generally has to be learnt with the verb, since just like in English it is often a part of the verb. One odd preposition is "da" which when following a noun indicates sort of the passive infinitive. Ex. libri da leggere/per leggere — books to read.

I'm sure there are more "guidelines," but I couldn't think of any more. A native will surely add more. I also couldn't seem to think of any for "a." :P Hopefully this will be of some help, anyways ^^

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby Olinguito » 2016-01-21, 8:32

There is also da+infinitive where the verb in the infinitive has a passive sense.

    Non è facile da fare.
    It’s not easy to do (= "to be done").

    Non c’è niente da mangiare.
    There’s nothing to eat (= "to be eaten").

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby hashi » 2016-01-21, 9:17

Thanks guys, that does help somewhat. So if I was unsure which preposition to use in any given situation, would I be safest to default to di?

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby OldBoring » 2016-01-21, 9:21

Koko wrote:'2. if the verb has to do with hope, desire or expectation, you generally should use "di" (exception: volere which takes only the bare infinitive)
pe, "Mi ha detto di desiderare di andare al museo." (She told me she wants to go the museum.)

Weird. I have never thought about it:
-Desiderare di andare al museo
But: -Desidero andare al museo. (no "di".)

Also:
-desidero andare, voglio andare...
But: -ho voglia di andare, ho desiderio di andare...

Anyway your sentence sounds more natural like:
-Ha detto che desiderava andare al museo.

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby IpseDixit » 2016-01-21, 22:56

hashi wrote:Ciao a tutti :D

I have a question that I'm having a little trouble with in Italian. When you use two verbs together, and the second verb is the infinitive form, I never know what preposition I'm supposed to use. I've seen di, per, a used before (I think?) as well as no preposition at all. Are there any rules/guidelines that govern which I should be using?

For example:

io tento _____ cantare
io aspetto _____ uscire
io spero _____ vederlo

etc...


I don't know of any rules but then again, native speakers don't know of a lot of rules...

Besides what others have already said, I wanted to point out that some verbs change meaning depending on what preposition you use, e.g:

aspetto di uscire - I'm waiting to go out
aspetto a uscire - I've posponed my going out

penso di fare - I thik I('ll) do
penso a fare - I'm focused on doing

provo di essere - I prove to be
provo a essere - I try to be

hashi wrote:Thanks guys, that does help somewhat. So if I was unsure which preposition to use in any given situation, would I be safest to default to di?


Not that safe, but yeah, probably.

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby Koko » 2016-02-01, 7:25

Do the verbs "odiare" and "amare" pack as much punch as they are supposed to? (as in English, "hate is a strong word" even though I use it to the point of zero meaning)

For those who have some understanding of Japanese pragmatics, is saying "Ti amo" more equal to "Aishiteru" than "I love you?" And similarly "Ti odio" to "Kirei desu" than "I hate you?"

So if I want to joke around saying "I hate you," should I simply say "Non mi piaci" instead of "Ti odio" to be safe from the receiver getting too offended? (and save saying "Ti amo" for when I truly have the loves for another… what should I joke with instead?)

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby hashi » 2016-02-01, 20:45

Koko wrote: "Kirei desu"

Off-topic, but this means '[I/you/it/he/she] is beautiful/clean'. Kirai is the strong word for hate/dislike ;)

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby Koko » 2016-02-01, 23:41

hashi wrote:
Koko wrote: "Kirei desu"

Off-topic, but this means '[I/you/it/he/she] is beautiful/clean'. Kirai is the strong word for hate/dislike ;)

:doh: Omg, I made the same mistake my teacher's brother made when trying to hit on some Japanese woman by saying "Kirai desu" :lol: (instead of "Kirei") I feel disappointed in myself.

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby OldBoring » 2016-02-02, 7:33

I think this is more about personal usage rather than linguistic usages.
In Italian there's also the expression "Odio è una parola forte", often said in response to people saying that they hate someone.

Personally I rarely use neither as jokes… but I could imagine people say "ti adoro" (somehow "ti amo" sounds less likely to be used as joke, to me) and "ti odio" or "ti detesto"…

I think Italians are more likely to say "sei un(o/a)… [insert good word or bad word]" :mrgreen: , like "sei un grande!", "sei uno stronzo" and similar.
If that's the connotation that you meant.

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby Koko » 2016-02-02, 8:11

OldBoring wrote:I think this is more about personal usage rather than linguistic usages.
In Italian there's also the expression "Odio è una parola forte", often said in response to people saying that they hate someone.

Questa frase in tutte le lingue mi fa arrabbiato :evil: L'odio è una buonissima emozione che possa solo fare più forte l'amore fra due persone! (allora… in qualche modo è una parola forte, però in un modo differente che la frase si vuol dir significare :whistle: )

Personally I rarely use neither as jokes… but I could imagine people say "ti adoro" (somehow "ti amo" sounds less likely to be used as joke, to me) and "ti odio" or "ti detesto"…

L'userò "ti detesto" :twisted:

I think Italians are more likely to say "sei un(o/a)… [insert good word or bad word]" :mrgreen: , like "sei un grande!", "sei uno stronzo" and similar.
If that's the connotation that you meant.

Da parlare "good/bad word," riferisce a un nome, no? Si possa scegliere qualsiasi parola? Che bello! Ora ho voglio di cercare una bella parola di prima, e poi una non-così-bella(?) (parola?) :twisted: Grazie!

How would someone take to "Sei uno zucchino"? :lol:

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby OldBoring » 2016-02-02, 10:49

This is the only occurrence I found of that expression lol:
https://latopinadellavalleargentina.wor ... trombette/

E poi ancora “Sei uno zucchino” per indicare, a seconda della regione, una persona molto alta e magra oppure un testone.

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby joh7n » 2016-02-21, 21:12

Hello everyone. I am new to this site. I speak a little German but I have come here today because I need help with an Italian language problem.

I am researching a potential product and have been speaking to an Italian company called Sordinella about a learning aid to help school children play the recorder. The problem is that I speak no Italian and it seems apparent they speak no English. I have sent a few emails using google translate and if Sordinella's replies are anything to go by, I'm guessing my communications have been as confusing to them as their's are to me.

Their website shows a short (minute and a half, or so) video demonstrating the use of their 'cardboard information windmill' but it is in Italian. Can anybody translate this for me?

I have dropboxed the video at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/800 ... 0video.MOV

The audio only version can be heard at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/800 ... 0audio.m4a

A still image of the 'windmill' can be seen at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/800 ... 0image.jpg

Thanks in advance for anybody prepared to help me

Joh7n

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby hashi » 2016-02-25, 20:51

Halp pls.

I have heard the phrases parliamola and parliamoci in a two songs recently (I checked the lyrics, so I'm not just hearing things :P), and can't work out why the -la and -ci are there when it's not an infinitive (since I know that parlarla and parlarci are grammatically possible - even if not contextually/semantically possible). Can anyone explain?

Many grazie in advance.

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby Koko » 2016-02-26, 2:55

First person plural infinitive ;) "Parliamola" — "Let's speak it(?)"; "Parliamoci" — "Let's talk about it"

There might be some kind of phrasal meaning, but I'm pretty sure that parliamoci should be "Let's talk about it."

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Re: Translations/Questions

Postby IpseDixit » 2016-02-29, 20:16

Parliamoci is an imperative, that's why it is suffixed, and it means "let's talk to each other/one another". Remember that "ci" is also a reflexive particle meaning (to) each other / (to) one another depending on the context.

@koko: "let's talk about it" would be parliamone.

Parliamola means "let's speak it". Where the "it" in question is a feminine thing.


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