Lu sicilianu

lumedi
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Lu sicilianu

Postby lumedi » 2009-08-08, 21:26

Frati e soru mei di la Trinacria facítivi séntiri! Vaju mi cercu di fari agghiúnciri la nostra lingua a stu prucettu. Ci sunnu lu sardu, lu corsu, lu catalanu e la mautisi ma mancu chiddhu nostru. Susémuni carusi e ni nni emu avanti. S'abbinidica!

P.S. Salutuni a OCCASVS pi lu 'mmitu di agghicari cá.

:partyhat:

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby OCCASVS » 2009-08-09, 10:42

È bello vedere una discussione sul siciliano :yep:
Purtroppo, non conosco questa lingua, e mi trovo costretto a scrivere in italiano.

Sono curioso: esistono degli standard universalmente riconosciuti per scrivere in questa lingua?
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lumedi
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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby lumedi » 2009-08-11, 20:49

OCCASVS wrote:È bello vedere una discussione sul siciliano :yep:
Sono curioso: esistono degli standard universalmente riconosciuti per scrivere in questa lingua?


È difficile spiegare. Nel senso politico, il NO. Le lingue minori come la nostra sono sempre penalizzate dalla società e mancano il sostegno pubblico. Lo stato non riconosce la lingua siciliana e non c'è alcun corpo ufficiale che la regola. Nel senso linguistico il SÌ. Il siciliano parlato presenta delle differenze da zona a zona e ha fatto sorgere, specie in ambienti disabituati alla lettura di testi siciliani classici, un bordello di stili ortografici. Come l'Italiano presenta nella forma parlata le sue varietà regionali, anche il siciliano presenta le sue varianti (ce ne sono 8, Occidentale, Centrale-Occidentale, Metafonetica centrale, Metafonetica sudorientale, Non metafonetica orientale, Messinese, Pantesco, ed Eoliano) e i vari dialetti locali con le proprie particolari pronunce, i propri vocaboli e a volte le peculiari costruzioni sintattiche che cambiano anche da quartiere in quartiere. Ma, comunque, tutte pienamente intellegibili tra di esse. Il problema avrebbe una qualche ragione di porsi solo se non esistesse una letteratura siciliana preunitaria, un siciliano scritto, antico ma adattabile, sostanzialmente uniforme a prescindere dalla provenienza geografica degli autori. Ed il siciliano scritto, a giudizio di tutti i linguisti, è sostanzialmente uniforme. Quella lingua siciliana letteraria, colta, ortodossa, degna pienamente del nome di Lingua, è quella scritta dal catanese Martoglio, dal palermitano Meli, dai poeti e dai narratori di ieri e di oggi (ad eccezione di Camilleri Andrea e il suo siciliano italianizzato :nope:).

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Dminor » 2009-08-27, 16:06

Ah, conosci mica i Canterini di Ortigia? Conosco solo due loro canzoni, ma mi piacciono un sacco :) Si chiamano "'u Vespru" e "Gancia" (a quanto pare si trattano tutt'e due della libertà della Sicilia). Interessante questa lingua comunque :partyhat:
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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby paris21 » 2010-12-03, 15:38

Hey guys..
is it true that there are plenty of greek words in cicilian dialect..???
if so can you give some examples..??thanx..!!
greek(ελληνικά)
ancient greek
english
svenska
francais

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby paris21 » 2010-12-29, 12:28

anyone..??
greek(ελληνικά)
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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby ILuvEire » 2010-12-30, 0:59

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby SkógsFræ » 2011-04-02, 10:19

Che bello, una discussione sul siciliano :D
Io per esempio ho cominciato a fare studi sulla grammatica che mi hanno portato a delle strane scoperte. Per esempio nella variante che si parla nel mio paese non esiste il futuro indicativo e si usano diversi modi per esprimerlo, come il presente indicativo o la forma "iri a fare", però girovagando su internet ho trovato delle grammatiche di non so quale variante discordi tra di loro. Per esempio in una ho trovato proprio la coniugazione del futuro indicativo (cosa mai sentita prima) e addirittura in una c'era anche il condizionale (cosa che per me è stata ancora più assurda in quanto, almeno da me, il condizionale non esiste e i vari periodi ipotetici si costruiscono alla latina con solo il congiuntivo). In più dal punto di vista fonetico, a differenza della zona di Catania, nella mia zona la doppia d retroflessa non è mai seguita dalla r, abbiamo anche molte vocali metafonetiche e un suono consonantico uguale al "ng" svedese.

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Michael » 2012-04-07, 23:40

paris21 wrote:Hey guys..
is it true that there are plenty of greek words in cicilian dialect..???
if so can you give some examples..??thanx..!!
I know the user who asked this probably is not coming back anytime soon, but for the heck of it, I'll offer some examples of Greek-derived words in my very own Neapolitan dialect. :D
    arrustì "to roast" cognate with Greek αρρωσταίνω "to sicken"
    pazzià "to play" cognate with Greek παίζω of the same meaning
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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Sfrontato » 2013-07-21, 19:34

Quando ero un bambino mia mama mi parlava in sicilianu. Poi, in America, prendevo una classe d'italiano e imparavo il modo "officiale" di parlare. Voglio imparare sicilianu :(

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-07-21, 19:59

Sfrontato wrote:Quando ero un bambino mia mamma mi parlava in sicilianu. Poi, in America, prendevo lezioni d'italiano e imparavo il modo "officiale" di parlare. Voglio imparare sicilianu :(


classe just means classroom ^^

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Koko » 2013-12-14, 7:22

Why does Sicilian differ from Italian? Does it have something to do with being separated from the Italian Peninsula? If so, do Sardinians have a different language as well?

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Michael » 2013-12-14, 8:14

Koko wrote:Why does Sicilian differ from Italian? Does it have something to do with being separated from the Italian Peninsula? If so, do Sardinians have a different language as well?

You must be asking these questions with the mindset that Sicilian, along with all the other regional dialects of Italy, are derived from Italian instead of Vulgar Latin, which would be wrong. I should also mention as a fun fact that what is now Standard Italian received much influence from Sicilian during its nascence in medieval times, so many words that may seem like Italianisms in Sicilian could really be words whose counterparts entered what is now the standard language as Sicilianisms. :wink:
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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-12-14, 10:49

Koko wrote:do Sardinians have a different language as well?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinian_language

There are many minority languages in Italy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Italy

But of course everybody is a native Italian speaker too.

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Koko » 2013-12-14, 14:59

Aóristos wrote:You must be asking these questions with the mindset that Sicilian, along with all the other regional dialects of Italy, are derived from Italian instead of Vulgar Latin, which would be wrong.


Actually, I just thought that Sicilian would be Italian, not a whole other language(as it isn't exactly like Italian) since it is part of Italy.

(EDIT: is)
Last edited by Koko on 2013-12-15, 1:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-12-14, 15:13

Koko wrote:Actually, I just thought that Sicilian would be Italian, not a whole other language(as it isn't exactly like Italian) since it [i]is[/] part of Italy.


I just hope you won't get the wrong idea. Italian is the language of Sicily, but alongside it, there's also Sicilian. I would say that most Sicilians are perfectly bilingual in Sicilian and Italian. But Sicilian is mainly a spoken language and used in informal circumstances. Things like schools, beurocracy, TV, cinema, and all this kind of stuff are all in Italian.

Also, Sicilian, like many other minority languages, is fragmented in a plethora of local dialects and doesn't have a standard unified form, so it's likely that two Sicilians from two different cities may need to use Italian to understand each other.

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Saim » 2013-12-19, 18:51

Koko wrote:
Aóristos wrote:You must be asking these questions with the mindset that Sicilian, along with all the other regional dialects of Italy, are derived from Italian instead of Vulgar Latin, which would be wrong.


Actually, I just thought that Sicilian would be Italian, not a whole other language(as it isn't exactly like Italian) since it is part of Italy.

(EDIT: is)


That's the thing, Italy as a nation was originally created out of a patchwork of different Romance peoples in the Italian Peninsula. Nowadays Italian (a standardized language based on the vernacular of Tuscany) is the dominant language throughout Italy, but when the country was first unified this wasn't at all the case - Italian was used as a literary language in many different regions but the common people had little knowledge of it AFAIK.

Here's a detailed map of the historical vernaculars of Italy:

Image

The variety that formed the basis for what is now known as "Italian" is shown in light blue under TO in the map. This area is known as Tuscany, and its language gained prestige when the Tuscan Dante wrote in his own vernacular rather than Provençal/Occitan (the traditional language of southern France) as well as due to Florence's general cultural output (Florence is the capital of Tuscany). Ultimately this lead to the speech of educated Florentines to develop into a sort of lingua franca in the peninsula, and it was declared the national language when Italy was unified.

Keep in mind also that the above map is not fully current, because many of these languages have become endangered or confined to rural areas. For example, Lombard (marked in green under LO) is hardly ever heard in Milan anymore.

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-12-19, 23:36

Koko wrote:
Aóristos wrote:You must be asking these questions with the mindset that Sicilian, along with all the other regional dialects of Italy, are derived from Italian instead of Vulgar Latin, which would be wrong.


Actually, I just thought that Sicilian would be Italian, not a whole other language(as it isn't exactly like Italian) since it is part of Italy.

(EDIT: is)



Here is Wikipedia in Sicilian:

http://scn.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A0ggina_principali

If you know Italian, you can easily notice how the Sicilian language differs from it.

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Koko » 2013-12-20, 4:19

Massimiliano B wrote:If you know Italian, you can easily notice how the Sicilian language differs from it.


Imparai l'italiano abbastanza a videre un differenza grande.(Mi correggi se ho fatto uno sbaglio.)

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Re: Lu sicilianu

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-12-22, 22:53

Koko wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:If you know Italian, you can easily notice how the Sicilian language differs from it.


Imparai Ho imparato l'italiano abbastanza così bene a da videre notare un una grande differenza grande.(Mi correggi Correggimi se ho fatto uno sbaglio.)


You can say also

«Ho imparato l'italiano abbastanza bene, sicché riesco a notare una grande differenza»

or

«Ho imparato l'italiano così bene che riesco a notare una grande differenza».

Il passato remoto («imparai») in questo caso non va usato, perché gli effetti dell'azione (l'imparare l'italiano) si fanno sentire anche sul momento presente. In tal caso, infatti, si usa il passato prossimo («ho imparato»). Se dico «imparai» significa che ora non ricordo più nulla di quello che imparai.


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