Who want to correct my Italian poem?

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Who want to correct my Italian poem?

Postby Leviwosc » 2002-09-25, 16:37

Hello Everybody,

I've written a poem, originaly in Dutch and have translated it into Italian. I'm afraid there are a lot of mistakes into the Italian text. And I hope there is somebody here who want to correct the Italian text for me, so I can present a good Italian poem on a Dutch poem meeting, I've written my poem in Italian, because I like the sound of the Italian language, but also because the theme of this meeting is: "poems in an other language."

I hope somebody could help me. First the Dutch poem and than, the Italian translation. For who help me, thank you very much!



De Magische meeting van België


Als bomen in een bos tesamen
Laten zij de wind langs den taken huilen.

De zon straalt haar stralen over hen heen.
Geen lege plek, geen boom alleen.

De wind brengt een wonderlijke melodie
Vanuit alle windstreken, humor en melancholie

Grenzen overschreden naar een ander land.
Gaan vreemde volkeren met elkaar hand in hand.

Een bos gekleurd, door de naderende herfst.
Waar elke boom zijn eigen verhaal vertelt in de wind.

Een lied dat stilletjes wordt meegevoerd in de wind.
Een lied dat fluisterend in alle windstreken is te horen.

Maar slechts voor hen die stil zijn en luisteren.
Naar de verhalen van de bomen in het bos.




La riunione magica del Belgio


Come gli alberi in una foresta insieme.
Lasciato piangere il vento vicino ai brunches.

Il sole lucida loro il suo lustro sopra.
Nessun posti vuoti, nessun albero da solo.

Il vento dà una melodia meravigliosa.
Da tutti i quarti, umore e malinconia del vento.

I boarders sono attraversati ad un altro paese.
La vita sconosciuta della gente con eachother, passa a mano.

Una foresta, collored entro l'autunno d'avvicinamento.
Dove ogni albero dice alla sua propria storia nel vento.

Una canzone che ottiene ha trasportato molto tranquillamente la depressione il vento.
Una canzone che potete sentire il sussurro in tutti i quarti del vento.

Ma appena per loro che sono silenziosi ed ascoltano.
Alle storia degli alberi nella foresta.


Greetings
Ron de Leeuw
The Netherlands
Last edited by Leviwosc on 2002-09-26, 0:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby darkina » 2002-09-25, 17:19

I will try to look into it when i have time, though it will be ahrd to succeed as to have the best result i should know Dutch and compare with the real version... I'll have a look anyway, just be patient :)
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Postby Francy » 2002-09-25, 19:17

No problem Darkroom here I am!!! I'm a bit less busy at the moment I can try to correct it. I read it, it's really good but I had some problems in some points, and since I'm not able to understand Dutch I've asked you for some small bits in English, sorry... I hope I won't distort it, since I believe a lot of the meaning of a poem lies in it's sound, and I hope I won't change the sound, rythm and breathe of your poem!!!


La riunione magica del Belgio


Come gli alberi in una foresta insieme.
Lasciato (I don't understand this verb is it "you let" or "I have let"?) piangere il vento vicino ai cespugli.

Il sole lucida loro il suo lustro sopra (I don't understand this phrase, can you render it in English?).
Nessun posto vuoto, nessun albero da solo.

Il vento dà una melodia meravigliosa.
Da tutti i quarti (I don't know this word in this context, how is it in English?), umore e malinconia del vento.

I confini sono attraversati da un altro paese.
La vita sconosciuta della gente gli uni con gli aptri, passa a mano (what do you mean with this piece?).

Una foresta, clorata entro (entro means inside, are you sure) l'autunno in avvicinamento.
Dove ogni albero dice la sua propria storia nel vento.

Una canzone che ottiene (ottiene means to get domething from someone, are you sure?) ha trasportato molto tranquillamente la depressione il vento.
Una canzone che potete sentire il sussurro in tutti i quarti (again I don't know this word in this context...) del vento.

Ma appena per loro che sono silenziosi ed ascoltano.
Alle storia degli alberi nella foresta.

I'm sorry I haven't helped you too much, can you give me an English translation? I'm sorry again, but I don't want to distort your meaning with a wrong correction, I prefer to be sure of what you mean first...
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Postby Saaropean » 2002-09-25, 20:10

Here's an English translation of Ron's Dutch poem:


The magical meeting of Belgium


Like trees together in a forest,
they make the wind whistle around the branches.

The sun shines with its rays over them.
No glade, no tree alone.

The wind hums a miraculous melody,
from all quarters, humour and melancholy.

Crossing borders to another country,
foreign nations go hand in hand.

A forest coloured by the approaching autumn,
where every tree tells its own story in the wind.

A song that is driven silently by the wind,
a song that can be heard whispering in all quarters.

But only for those who are silent and who listen
to the stories of the trees in the forest.
Last edited by Saaropean on 2002-09-26, 11:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Leviwosc » 2002-09-26, 1:10

Thank you Saaropean for your help with an English translation of my poem, I think I couldn't gave a better translation.

And Francy, thank you that you wanna help me, I realy apreciate that... I'm afraid I've write the worst Italian text ever...

I hope you could give me a good Italian translation of the English version of my poem. The English version is written very well by Saaropean, who has made a perfect translation, for so far its possible to make a translation of a poem offcourse.

But there is one question to Saaropean, you've translated:

De wind brengt een wonderlijke melodie

into:

The wind hums a strange melody


I thought it must be "The wind carry a miraculous melody."

I don't want to pull down your translation, I'm very pleased with it, but I'm feeling uneasy about the translation of 'wonderlijke' into 'strange'. I thought it must be, 'miraculous'

I hope you can explane me Saaropean or somebody else offcourse. Who can explain that to this simple Dutch guy.

With Kind Regards
Ron de Leeuw
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Postby Saaropean » 2002-09-26, 9:39

Ik dachte, wonderlijk is het Duitse woord wunderlich. De oorspronkelijke betekenis van deze woord was wel "als een wonder" (miraculous), maar de moderne betekenis is "komisch" als in het werkwoord sich wundern ("zich verwonderen" in het Nederlands).

"False vrienden" maken het talenleren zo moeilijk...

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Postby Leviwosc » 2002-09-26, 11:27

Ik heb 'wonderlijk' opgezocht in mijn woordenboek, zowel 'strange' als 'miraculous' zijn vertalingen, alleen is strange wel als vertaling, als men zich over iets verwonderd. Miraculous dient men te gebruiken als men het heeft over een miracel, over een wonder dat is gebeurt. Over iets wonderlijks. 'Wonderlijk' is in het Nederlands een synoniem voor 'strange' en 'miraculous'

I'm sorry I've typed this text into Dutch, but its to complex for me to typ into English.

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Postby darkina » 2002-09-26, 15:37

Ok..i was trying to put my sleeves up and start working...but that's already been done :) It saves me i guess...;) I'll help next time then :)
век живи, век учись, а дураком помрешь

Pleasures remain, so does the pain

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Postby Leviwosc » 2002-09-26, 15:55

I hope you still want to help with translating the poem into Italian. :D

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Postby darkina » 2002-09-26, 16:00

Oh i see now there's something else...Ok here i'll try to translate from the english version into italian... Argh that's almost blasphemous, a translation of a translation...But maybe then we can put all the versions together and find what fits better.



Come alberi insieme in una foresta
fanno fischiare il vento tra i rami

Il sole splende con i suoi raggi su di loro
Nessuna radura, nessun albero solo

Il vento ronza (not sure this is the best translation...) una melodia miracolosa
da tutti i ??? (what do you mean by 'quarters'? can you explain the concept?), umore (=mood) e malinconia

Passando i confini verso un'altro stato
nazioni straniere vanno mano nella mano

Una foresta colorata dall'autunno che si avvicina
dove ogni albero racconta la sua storia nel vento

Una canzone che è guidata silenziosamente nel vento
una canzone che può essere sentita sussurrata in tutti i ('quartieri' maybe? parts of the city???)

Ma solo per quelli che sono silenziosi e ascoltano
le storie degli alberi nella foresta


This is literally translated from the english, so i don0t know how faithful it is to hte original, nor how the rythm can be fixed a bit, i just concentrated on words. Now let's hear from the author and try to match all the versions
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Postby Leviwosc » 2002-09-26, 17:08

I know the word 'quarter' would be a problem. That's the problem with English, 100 meanings for just one word.

The Dutch word I want to translate is 'windstreken'

windstreek - quarter - point of the compass.
windstreek - rombo del vento - i punti cardinali - da tutti gli angoli

windstreken is the plural tence of 'windstreek'. I don't know if that make any sence in Italian. I hope you know now what I mean :)

Thank you for your help Darkroom. And I'm bussy with studying Italian, so I hope I don't need your help anymore over a few months for translating a text into Italian.

With Kind Regards
Ron de Leeuw
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Postby Saaropean » 2002-09-26, 17:30

Darkroom wrote:Argh that's almost blasphemous, a translation of a translation..

LOL, sounds like you're a professional translator!

Darkroom wrote:da tutti i ??? (what do you mean by 'quarters'? can you explain the concept?)

There's nothing more to say. Ron's explanation is excellent. By the way: The German word for that is "Himmelsrichtung", which means "sky direction".

Darkroom wrote:This is literally translated from the english, so i don't know how faithful it is to the original

My translation was not supposed to look like a poem. I just wanted to convey the semantics, neither rhymes nor any abstract interpretation.
I always hated analyzing poems in school. I don't like poems, if I'm allowed to say that here. Please forgive me, for I am an il-literate (i.e. not a man of letters). :oops:

Darkroom wrote:nor how the rythm can be fixed a bit

Here's the rhymes of the Dutch original:
tesamen - huilen (no rhyme)
heen - alleen (a rhyme!)
melodie - melancholie (a rhyme!)
land - hand (a rhyme!)
herfst - wind ("autumn" vs. "wind" is not a rhyme, but it fits together)
wind - horen ("wind" vs. "hear" dito)
luisteren - in het bos ("listen" vs. "in the forest", not really)

Darkroom wrote:I just concentrated on words.

Shame on you, you're not better than I am! :wink:

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Postby Francy » 2002-09-26, 20:05

THANK YOU DARKROOM!!! This time you saved me the work!! I must admit you're a very professional translator, all my compliments!! You have a great career aheah!! (same compliments also to Saaropean, of course!!)
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Postby Leviwosc » 2002-09-26, 21:55

Thank you all for your help! I think you can't realy fix the rymth. When you translate a poem, the rymt disapears, and I don't want to change the text. Just one question to everybody now, is the poem below, a text writted in good Italian? Is the text correct?

I have to deliver the translation on Saturday, that's my deadline. The next time I'll come some earlyier to you. When the spelling is correct, its perfect to me and maybe I'll win the poem contest, I'll say to them all I wasn't the person who has translated the poem :D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

La riunione magica del Belgio

Come alberi insieme in una foresta
fanno fischiare il vento tra i rami

Il sole splende con i suoi raggi su di loro
Nessuna radura, nessun albero solo

Il vento ronza una melodia miracolosa
da tutti i angoli umore e malinconia

Passando i confini verso un'altro stato
nazioni straniere vanno mano nella mano

Una foresta colorata dall'autunno che si avvicina
dove ogni albero racconta la sua storia nel vento

Una canzone che è guidata silenziosamente nel vento
una canzone che può essere sentita sussurrata in tutti i angoli

Ma solo per quelli che sono silenziosi e ascoltano
le storie degli alberi nella foresta

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grazie di tutto i miei amici

Ciao Ciao
Ron de Leeuw
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Corrections

Postby ekalin » 2002-09-27, 0:18

Since neither of the italian ladies have corrected the text, I'll contribute a little (the only thing I found): it is "gli angoli", not "i angoli". It happens twice.

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Postby darkina » 2002-09-27, 15:29

ehy give me the time, i was about to say that ;) : GLI angoli. The rest seems ok to me :)

Saaropean, actually i didn't notice there was no rhyme...personally i enver use rhymes, the things i write are similar to my translation of the english version, i don't care that much about the rhytm...But incase Ron wanted it to sound more rhytmical, i prefered to make that clear :) I believe more in words than in rhytim, that's why i always concentrate more on them. Everybody has his ways ;) And yes every translation makes a distance from the original text, double translation is double distance... But as it is the only way to spread things worldwide...come on, let's translate! :) (well it is my only hope for the future...being a translator or something similar...i wouldn't know what else to do ;))

Himmelrichtung sounds to me like 'directions in the sky'...mmh... Anyway as it seems, the problem seems to have already been solved with 'da tutti gli angoli'.

Francy, ma figurati...la parte più difficile l'hai fatta tu...;) Comunque siamo una bella squadra, in 2 si fa più veloce, si lavora meno e si produce di più (si danno più idee...) ;)
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Postby darkina » 2002-09-27, 15:36

Oh, by the way, i bought a small dutch dictionary today, there's the basic grammar on it too...maybe one day, with the help of other sources... ;)
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Postby Francy » 2002-09-27, 19:14

Grazie per il complimento, ma diciamocelo era una balla perché stavolt non ho fatto niente e hai fatto tutto tu!!

Anyway, I believe that a great deal of the meaning of a poem lies in the rithm and most of all in the sounds. I've read once a critic about the Infinito of Leopardi which said its sense of the "neverending" was given also by the many os of the words of the text, as well as the many vcals shifts (one stanza all with es, one all with as) of D'Annunzio's La pioggia nel Pineto was looked for to give the sense of the orcestra playing in the nature. The same theories have been applied to Sheakespeare's Sonnets, Poe's prose in Tales of Terror, and many others... But it's true that making a good translation is so difficult, if you care too much about the sounds you probably loose the real sense of words!!
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Postby Leviwosc » 2002-09-27, 19:50

The rymth isn't so important to me, the meaning of the words, the message I send out, that's many more important to me. And just like you've seen, also my Dutch poem doesn't rym always.

I think that when you would change the sentence so they would be rym, the whole message is lost. I'm very glad with this translation, there is only one problem and nobody could help me with that!

I've to recite the poem loud for a public of 100 people.... aaaaahhhh :D

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Postby darkina » 2002-09-28, 14:11

LOL Ron, that might be a problem...

Yes i see what you mean Francy and there are poets who care a lot about the rhytm too. Personally i care more about the meaning, as Ron does, if it comes out also with good rythm, that's better :) In translation this is even harder too, as we noticed...
век живи, век учись, а дураком помрешь

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