Sidesõnad / conjunctions

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eurooplane
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Sidesõnad / conjunctions

Postby eurooplane » 2005-10-22, 12:47

Hi !


From http://www.eki.ee/books/ekkr/m13.html
« Sidesõnad on muutumatud sõnad, mille ainsaks süntaktiliseks funktsiooniks on siduda lauses moodustajaid, seejuures viimaste vormi mõjustamata.
Sidesõnu on kõikides keeltes vähe. Eesti keeles on neid paarkümmend: ja, ning, ega, ehk, või, aga, kuid, ent, vaid, et, kui, kuna, sest, kuni, kuigi, ehkki, nagu, arhailised saati, elik ning liitsõnalised justkui, otsekui. Nt Alguses lõi Jumal taeva ja maa. See on hea raamat, aga too teine on huvitavam. Jüri on noorem kui Mari. »


What are the differences between :

ja & ning (and)
kuigi & ehkki (although)
või, elik & ehk (or)
nagu & kui (as/like)


In another topic, differences between aga & vaid are explained, but are there differences between aga, kuid & ent ?


Tänan ! :wink:

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Postby Loiks » 2005-10-22, 18:09

Very simple: ning, ehkki, elik, ehk, kui, kuid, ent are rarely used in a language which I would call standard spoken Estonian. For example ning is a word from islands' dialect and one of my friends uses ent because it's kind of posh and stylish, that can be said about all those words, you meet them in literature.

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Postby eurooplane » 2005-10-23, 9:24

Ok !

And what does mean :

otsekui
nõnda et
nõnda kui
nõnda nagu
niihästi kui = as nice as ?
peale seda kui

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Postby Loiks » 2005-10-23, 12:33

otsekui - as if, just like (otse = directly)
nõnda et - so that (nõnda = nii)
nõnda kui - (so) as
nõnda nagu - (so) as
niihästi kui - as well as
peale seda kui - after that when

Those meanings can be different depending on context.

aabram

ja & ning

Postby aabram » 2005-11-08, 9:58

I'm late to the party as usual but nevertheless:

Although "ja" & "ning" are often used interchangeably they can be used to group words within the list, to indicate their interrelationships. For example, if you have 4 people coming to the meetup then you could say:

1) Tulevad Mari, Jaan, Marge ja Jaanus.
2) Tulevad Mari ja Jaan ning Marge ja Jaanus.


The difference is that in first case you just list all those people who come but in second case you say that "Mari ja Jaan" will come and also "Marge ja Jaanus" will come. Second sentence gives the hint that Mari & Jaan belong together (either they're a couple or you just know they come together on this occasion) and also Marge & Jaanus belong together. So you're really saying that:

Tulevad (Mari, Jaan) & (Marge, Jaanus).

This is best used in short sentences, when used with long list it may confuse the reader instead of clarifying the matter. Problem is that different people have different view on whether the grouping occurs at "ja" or at "ning". For example, if the sentence is written:

Tulevad Mari ning Jaan ja Marge ning Jaanus.

Then some people would group it this way instead:

Mari & (Jaan, Marge) & Jaanus

In this sentence it doesn't really matter but I've seen sentences where I had to think for some time before I understood what exactly it meant. I don't remember any shining examples at the moment but I do remember spending about fifteen or more minutes once discussing with others whether we should use "ja" or "ning" in one particular sentence in order to guarantee that the reader would understand it exactly as we meant it.

But yes, in general, they're freely interchangeable.

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Postby eurooplane » 2005-11-09, 10:42

It’s very clever/genius !! :D
Is it the same with või and ehk ?
Here is a try :

Ta vastab alati ‘jah’ või ‘ei’ ehk ‘ma tean’ või ‘ma ei tea’.

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Postby Mantaz » 2005-11-09, 11:45

eurooplane wrote:It’s very clever/genius !! :D
Is it the same with või and ehk ?
Here is a try :

Ta vastab alati ‘jah’ või ‘ei’ ehk ‘ma tean’ või ‘ma ei tea’.


Hm, dunno how in Estonian, but in Lithuanian we do as well have analogues of "ja" ("ir") and "ning" ("bei") as well as "või" ("ar") and "ehk" ("arba" / "nors"). With "and" group those listings can be done, but with "or" group at least in Lithuanian would be pretty illogic.

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Postby Loiks » 2005-11-09, 16:54

eurooplane wrote:It’s very clever/genius !! :D
Is it the same with või and ehk ?
Here is a try :

Ta vastab alati ‘jah’ või ‘ei’ ehk ‘ma tean’ või ‘ma ei tea’.


No, it doesn't work like this with või and ehk in modern Estonian. Ehk means 'in other words'. Eg. globaliseerumine ehk üleilmastumine, genitiiv ehk omastav kääne etc.

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Postby eurooplane » 2005-11-11, 18:06

Loiks wrote:Ehk means 'in other words'. Eg. globaliseerumine ehk üleilmastumine, genitiiv ehk omastav kääne etc.
I didn’t see the difference between ‘või’ and ‘ehk’, before…

About Lithuanian, Mantaz, you say my sentence would be illogic,
is it because ‘arba’ and ‘nors’ means ‘in other words’ too ?

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Postby Loiks » 2005-11-12, 18:38

Ehk can also mean perhaps especially in combination with või in... well... literature or kind of stylish language. The word is hardly used in spoken language (I speak only for myself and people I know of course).

Või is very much used in spoken language as a question particle or even suffix. Standard Estonian question would be 'kas sa tuled?' - Do you come? But everybody says: tuled või? (it is pronounced like 'tuledvä'). I guess it will take the same roll sometimes like the Finnish -ko/-kö (or has it already taken). But now this is strictly slang and not allowed in written language.

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Postby Mantaz » 2005-11-14, 8:50

eurooplane wrote:
Loiks wrote:Ehk means 'in other words'. Eg. globaliseerumine ehk üleilmastumine, genitiiv ehk omastav kääne etc.
I didn’t see the difference between ‘või’ and ‘ehk’, before…

About Lithuanian, Mantaz, you say my sentence would be illogic,
is it because ‘arba’ and ‘nors’ means ‘in other words’ too ?


Nope, it doesn't mean "in other words", but in some cases "in other words" might probably be replaced by them ;)

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Postby eurooplane » 2005-11-14, 19:50

OK, Thanks!


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