estonian from finnish

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Loiks
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Postby Loiks » 2006-04-09, 14:53

Võro keelen ütlemiisi põhaeestläne ei jaaq :)

(A Northern Estonian doesn't understand sayings in Võro.)

I have to say that I have no personal contact to Võro, I'm very much a 'northerner', a tallinner , so the word 'native' doesn't describe me if we speak about Võro. It's phonetically closer to Finnish because of vowel harmony for example which has disappeared from North Estonian (and Livonian and Veps). But then again Finnish is devided into dialectal areas also and South Western Finland speaks quite a language similar to Northern Estonian while the Eastern Finns and Karelians and even the Võro have their own common features.

Well, and I've met the author of the 'synaraamat' and I know he has done it with a big heart and as good as it has been possible.

P.S. The language of the forums or chatrooms is really bad Estonian, it can never be an example.

Ütelüseq = ütlused (EE) = sanonnat (FI) To my knowledge there is no such stem in Finnish at all (and my Finnish is better than my Võro :))

Ada H.
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Postby Ada H. » 2006-04-12, 9:28

Loiks wrote:Ütelüseq = ütlused (EE) = sanonnat (FI) To my knowledge there is no such stem in Finnish


EE ütelda, öelda
VÕ üldäq
FI jutella?

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Jonne
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Postby Jonne » 2006-04-12, 11:22

I'm not sure what are those Estonian words, but jutella means 'to chat' or 'to talk'

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Loiks
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Postby Loiks » 2006-04-12, 18:06

Ada H. wrote:
Loiks wrote:Ütelüseq = ütlused (EE) = sanonnat (FI) To my knowledge there is no such stem in Finnish


EE ütelda, öelda
VÕ üldäq
FI jutella?


FI sanoa.

jutella = juttu ajada, vestelda

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Jonne
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Postby Jonne » 2006-04-13, 14:58

sanoa=to say

Ada H.
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Postby Ada H. » 2006-04-13, 16:04

I think sõnada and sanoa are cognates, as well as ütelda and jutella, even though the latter have slightly different meanings.
Also there are lausuda and lausua, rääkida and rääkkyä. But what about kõneleda?

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Postby Loiks » 2006-04-15, 17:41

Ada H. wrote:I think sõnada and sanoa are cognates, as well as ütelda and jutella, even though the latter have slightly different meanings.
Also there are lausuda and lausua, rääkida and rääkkyä. But what about kõneleda?


Paraku eksid. Sõnada ja sanoa on küll ühest tüvest ja tähendavad umbkaudu sama, aga mõtle nt kui palju sa ise kasutad sõna sõnada? Samas sanoa on soome keeles kõige tavalisem sõna tähenduses 'ütlema'. Siin on siis minu arvates stiilierinevus. Vaatan sõnaraamatust: jutella: jutustada, vesta; jutelda, vestelda. See pole sugugi "natuke erinev tähendus". Lausua: ütelda, lausuda; esitada; väljendada; deklameerida; hääldada. Siin on sul õigus. Nii soome kui eesti kõnekeeles kasutatakse seda sõna ikkagi üsna harva. Nüüd kõige suurem viga: rääkkyä: vaakuda, kraaksuda; karjuda. Eesti rääkida on laensõna alamsaksa sõnast spreken. Soome vaste oleks puhua.

Suhtlen väga palju soomlastega, väga kerge on teha selliseid vigu. On palju sarnaselt kõlavaid, aga erineva tähendusega sõnu.

Sorry, I don't feel power to translate it into English now.

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eurooplane
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Postby eurooplane » 2006-04-15, 19:14

Good training for me… :)
I try :
Sorry, you’re wrong. Sõnada and sanoa are of course from the same stem, and mean approximatively the same. But I’m realizing, how much do you use the word sõnada ? The same sanoa is in finnish most usually the stem ‘ütlema’.
Siin on siis minu arvates stiilierinevus.
I look into the dictionnary : jutella: jutustada, vesta; jutelda, vestelda. It isn’t at all « a little different root » Lausua: ütelda, lausuda; esitada; väljendada; deklameerida; hääldada. Here you’re right. As much in finnish than in estonian speaking languages this word is rarely used.
Now the biggest mistake : rääkkyä: vaakuda, kraaksuda; karjuda. The estonian rääkida is a loanword from the germanic word spreken. The finnish equivalent would be puhua.

I communicate a lot with finns, very difficult is to do… ( ?)
There are many resembling sonorities, but with different origins.

Ada H.
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Postby Ada H. » 2006-04-16, 8:36

Loiks wrote: Sõnada ja sanoa on küll ühest tüvest ja tähendavad umbkaudu sama


This is exactly what I meant by cognates, I did not say they were synonymes.

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stordragon
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Postby stordragon » 2006-04-22, 6:36

Loiks wrote:Võro keelen ütlemiisi põhaeestläne ei jaaq :)

(A Northern Estonian doesn't understand sayings in Võro.)

I have to say that I have no personal contact to Võro, I'm very much a 'northerner', a tallinner , so the word 'native' doesn't describe me if we speak about Võro. It's phonetically closer to Finnish because of vowel harmony for example which has disappeared from North Estonian (and Livonian and Veps). But then again Finnish is devided into dialectal areas also and South Western Finland speaks quite a language similar to Northern Estonian while the Eastern Finns and Karelians and even the Võro have their own common features.

Well, and I've met the author of the 'synaraamat' and I know he has done it with a big heart and as good as it has been possible.

P.S. The language of the forums or chatrooms is really bad Estonian, it can never be an example.

Ütelüseq = ütlused (EE) = sanonnat (FI) To my knowledge there is no such stem in Finnish at all (and my Finnish is better than my Võro :))

I see, Loiks. Sorry for the terribly late reply and many thanks!
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Loiks
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Postby Loiks » 2006-04-22, 8:35

Stordragon, you've obviously edited your post way shorter than it was originally. I agree with everything said about Saami, I feel for them deeply. But a majority of them have a chance to live in countries that are wealthiest and most democratic in the world (except the Kola peninsula Saamis). Estonia, Finland and Norway have a certain Eastern neighbouring country where there are several 'family members' dead or almost dead and nothing helps actually. Just forgotten people. The three independent F-U nations have tried to take some students from there in their universities and send their teachers to there and both sides have enjoyed it but, well, the Putinist authorities start to seem very much like it was in old times.

You proposed some very interesting projects but sorry, I have a full time job and that puts some limits to communication.

best regards

L.


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