Words into Eesti please

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Strigo
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Words into Eesti please

Postby Strigo » 2005-07-26, 1:12

cat
dog
tree
bus
school
pencil
flower
cloud
magician
love
cold
hot
dust
storm
book

PLS!
Aquí es donde traduzco diariamente música israelí del hebreo al español

[flag]cl[/flag] native; [flag]en[/flag] fluent; [flag]il[/flag] lower advanced ; [flag]pt-BR[/flag] read fluently, understand well, speak not so badly (specially after some Itaipava); recently focusing on [flag]sv[/flag][flag]ar[/flag] and I promised myself to finish my [flag]ru[/flag] New Penguin Russian Course: A Complete Course for Beginners in less than a month (12/oct/2013). Wants to wake up one day speaking [flag]ka[/flag][flag]lt[/flag] and any Turkic language.

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Re: Words into Eesti please

Postby Mantaz » 2005-07-26, 7:06

you're welcome :)

dog - koer
tree - puu
bus - buss (pron. puss)
school - kool
pencil - pliats
flower - lill
cloud - pilv
magician - nõid
love - armastus
cold - külm
hot - kuum
dust - tolm
storm - torm
book - raamat

aabram

Re: Words into Eesti please

Postby aabram » 2005-07-26, 8:41

To initial poster: you can't say "words into Eesti" because "Eesti" is not the name of our language. "Eesti" is the country name. When you refer to language, you have to use "eesti keel" (estonian language).

Mantaz wrote:bus - buss (pron. puss)


No, you pronounce it with soft b, not p. You may hear it spoken that way but it is sloppy language. Estonian is spoken as written.

Mantaz wrote:pencil - pliats


pencil - pliiats

Mantaz wrote:magician - nõid


witch (evil) - nõid
magician (as David Copperfield) - mustkunstnik
magician (as sorcerer or mage) - võlur

PS - for looking up single words, use http://www.tps.edu.ee/nastik/
(when Estonian counterpart is given as comma separated list, just use the first one, others are either synonyms or metaphors)
Last edited by aabram on 2005-07-26, 8:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Mantaz » 2005-07-26, 8:45

Well, I always pronounce "puss", so my teacher (Estonian) does that. It's probably due to similarity of soft b and sound p ;)

aabram

Postby aabram » 2005-07-26, 8:50

Mantaz wrote:Well, I always pronounce "puss", so my teacher (Estonian) does that. It's probably due to similarity of soft b and sound p ;)


Don't, the word "puss" means dirk, a strong knife. "Puss" or "pussnuga" is something a hunter or tracker carries on his belt. And special forces guys carry it too :-)

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Postby Mantaz » 2005-07-26, 8:52

So is there a big difference between pronunciation of "buss" and "puss"? ;)

aabram

Postby aabram » 2005-07-26, 9:17

Mantaz wrote:So is there a big difference between pronunciation of "buss" and "puss"? ;)


In regular speech, no. Just as people often drop "h" from the beginning and pronounce "obune" instead of "hobune" (the horse) and "aigla" instead of "haigla" (the hospital). But in correct speech, yes. With B you like gently let your lips open (as b in "lobster" or, well, in "bubble") but with P you push forcefully air out (think "pfff!" or "phhh!" without f or h).

But I do think that one should start relaxing the pronounciation only after one has aquired the correct one. There are languages where there are million ways of pronouncing it right (try Norwegian) but fortunately in Estonian it's usually one generally accepted correct way. When the word is written certain way it is almost always pronounced a that certain way too. Ignore the dialects for now :-)

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Postby Loiks » 2005-07-26, 16:07

Hi!

I'm sorry but I absolutely disagree with aabram about the pronounciation of b, d, g in the beginning of words. I even don't know any Estonian who would be able to pronounce correct sounded b, d, or g without special training.

And to confirm my statement:

"Sõna algul kirjutatakse eesti põlissõnades ja vanades kodunenud laensõnades (seega omasõnades) p, t, k, võõrsõnades on lähtekeele järgi b, d, g. Nt omasõnad puu, päev, tuul, tulema, kala, katsuma; pluus, piibel, taanlane, tohter, kindral, kips; aga võõrsõnad broiler, bioloogia, disain, dilemma, galaktika, geen. Võõrsõnade algul oleva b, d, g hääldus on ikkagi p, t, k nagu omasõnadeski. (my bold, L.)"

(from: Tiiu Erelt. Eesti ortograafia. Tallinn, 1995)

Lauri

aabram

Postby aabram » 2005-07-26, 16:33

Loiks wrote:I even don't know any Estonian who would be able to pronounce correct sounded b, d, or g without special training.


We must be moving around in different circles then. Most of the people I know prononuce "buss" and "puss" distinguishably differently.

I do remember that at school many Estonian classes were spent on explaining the usage and the difference between k, p, t and g, b, d.

Do you really pronounce "graafik" as "kraafik" and "banaan" as "panaan"?

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Postby Loiks » 2005-07-26, 17:26

I most certainly do. Pronouncing b, d, g and ž softly and with sound is influence of neighbouring Indo-European languages. It has been kind of 'posh' pronounciation. There is no need to crumple your tongue with unfamilliar sounds while speaking your native language. Different pronounciation is not even needed to distinguish the words, you'll understand everything from context anyway (as in this buss-puss example: you can't cut with a bus and never drive a knife).
But really, if I try to pronounce this buss-puss pair or for example geel-keel, there's no difference whatsoever. I let some other people pronounce such pairs too, and with same results. But everybody should use his/her own ears to decide what's the truth. I just wonder why a recognized linguist should say in her book that is meant to be teaching material at schools that [kra:fik] and [pana:n] are THE right variants?

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Postby eurooplane » 2005-07-27, 22:23

Tere !

Since Strigo is inventing a new numeral system http://home.unilang.org/main/forum/view ... w=previous
I’ve got a question about numbers.
I’m just afraid the explanation had lost/forgotten during the milleniums.
kaheksa = kümme – kaks ? üheksa = kümme – üks ?
Do you know the reason?

Alex.

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Postby eurooplane » 2005-08-01, 19:36

Well, I wondered that nine is based on one, as 10-1, and eight on two, as 10-2. Because, there are the same letters ü… in üheksa/üks and ka… in kaheksa/kaks.

In fact, I understand it’s common in every finnish related languages. Even in mordvin erzya:
veyke(for 1) veykse(for 9) and kavto(2) kavkso(8 )
and morvin moksha: kafta(2) kafksa(8 )
and samoyed, and ainu too: shine(1)=>shinepesan(9), tu(2)=>tupesan(8 )!
I suppose the origin is very very old.
http://www.zompist.com/asia.htm#uralic

There is perhaps the answere of my question in the fifth paragraph after the genealogical tree:
http://solmu.math.helsinki.fi/2001/2/suihkonen/
Do you understand the text in finnish, or should I ask my question in finnish forum?

Alex.

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Postby Mantaz » 2005-08-01, 20:19

Actually yeah, I also noticed that before ;) And not only first letters are in it, because ühe is a genitive from üks and kahe is a genitive from kaks and we all know that genitive is a basic case in Estonian ;)

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Postby Loiks » 2005-08-02, 17:08

eurooplane wrote:There is perhaps the answere of my question in the fifth paragraph after the genealogical tree:
http://solmu.math.helsinki.fi/2001/2/suihkonen/
Do you understand the text in finnish, or should I ask my question in finnish forum?

Alex.


I'll try to translate this paragraph into English:

"In table 1 there are listed the numerals from one to ten of several Fenno-Ugric languages. From Samoyed languages Nenets and Selkup are represented. The convergence of several numerals is easy to notice. The numerals yhdeksän and kahdeksan are interesting. For instance the Finnish numerals yhdeksän and kahdeksan are previously explained to have been developped so that the basic stem of them was formed by word that corresponds Latin word decem, from which the words yksi and kaksi were subtracted: "one out of ten" and "two out of ten". (That way the history of Udmurt and Komi words for eight and nine is explained.) In present time the Finnish numerals kahdeksan and yhdeksän are said to be composition of numerals yksi and kaksi and negation verb ei: "there is not one", "there is not two". This ethymology is also not perfect. There are also loanwords from other languages among numerals: for example the Udmurt and Komi das '10' is from Iranian origin."

So as you see there's no canonized explanation for the issue. Hope this answers your question though.

Lauri

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Postby Mantaz » 2005-08-02, 18:08

Btw, is 7 [seitse] a borrowed word, since it's very similar to indoeuropean sept/seven etc.?

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Postby eurooplane » 2005-08-03, 18:42

So as you see there's no canonized explanation for the issue. Hope this answers your question though.


It answers enough… :) Thanks a lot!

Btw, is 7 [seitse] a borrowed word, since it's very similar to indoeuropean sept/seven etc.?


Probably true :wink: . I believe the word hasn't completly been borrowed from indo-european, because generally, there is a P, as in old greek επτα , latin septas, P(labial) became B in german (sieben) or V in english(seven).
In « seitse », there are three letters key: S, E and T. Two of these letters belong to :
hungarian: hét
samoyed: selchi
turkish: yeti
bashkir: ete
kazakh: zhetti
tai: chet
lao: che:t…
I suppose E and T come from a language ancestor of Europa and Asia, whereas S, from indo-european. But, it’s just a supposition…

Tsau!

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Postby eurooplane » 2005-08-11, 18:49

Hi !

I’ve got two last little questions concerning numbers:
In some languages, people say 1976 as « thousand nine hundred seventy six », or « nineteen hundred seventy six ».
Is it the case in estonian?
And about « the seventies », is there an expression to talk about the decades?

Tänan väga! :wink:

___________________________________________________________________________
Missing until Sept.15th

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Postby Mantaz » 2005-08-11, 19:01

Estonian is the first case, when is "thousand nine hundred seventy six" and if to be more exact: "tuhat üheksa sada seitsekümmend kuus" ;)

About decades I'm also interested :P

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Postby Loiks » 2005-08-14, 8:30

Tuhat üheksasada (hundreds and tens are written as one word) seitsekümmend kuus is the right way to say it. In colloquial speech it is very common to say f.e. seitsmekümne kuuendal aastal (well it's impossible after the year 2000, kahe tuhande viies aasta).
And yes, we are talking about decades: (tuhande ...saja) seitsmekümnendad, kaheksakümnendad, üheksakümnendad (aastad).

F.e. Tuhande kaheksasaja kuuekümnendatel aastatel oli esimene eesti ärkamisaeg. Niinimetatud teine ärkamisaeg algas tuhande üheksasaja kaheksakümnendate lõpus.

(The first Estonian national awakening was in 1860's. So called second national awakening began at the end of 1980's.)

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Postby Mantaz » 2005-08-15, 18:56

Aitäh :)

One more thing I forgot from my lessons is the contruction that Estonian and Lithuanian have, but English don't. So, how do you say when you want to express "we are in <number>", i.e.:

"We are in three", "We are going there in four" etc.


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