Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

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ainurakne
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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby ainurakne » 2019-01-13, 8:18

Linguaphile wrote:raudteerööbas railroad track
Isn't it more like railroad rail?
Railroad track seems to be a lot more than that: rails + fasteners + railroad ties + ballast + underlying subgrade.

Linguaphile wrote:lumevaal piled or crushed snow on the road (kokkuvajunud lumevall või lumeviirg maanteel)
I have always thought for "vaal" in case of snow as being the equivalent of dune ("luide") in case of sand.
:lol:
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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Prantsis » 2019-01-13, 9:22

ainurakne wrote:I have always thought for "vaal" in case of snow as being the equivalent of dune ("luide") in case of sand.
:lol:

Isn't there the word "hang" for that?

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Naava » 2019-01-13, 9:45

Prantsis wrote:
ainurakne wrote:I have always thought for "vaal" in case of snow as being the equivalent of dune ("luide") in case of sand.
:lol:

Isn't there the word "hang" for that?

If I've understood it correctly, then hang is like all the sand in the desert while vaal is just one dune. :hmm:

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby ainurakne » 2019-01-13, 11:08

Prantsis wrote:Isn't there the word "hang" for that?
Hmm, I was familiar with a bit different usage of the word hang - an artificially piled pile of snow or just any kind of conceptually separable section of a snow-filled area - but it seems that according to dictionary, hanged are indeed formed by wind.
I think the main difference is that hanged form either on an uneven terrain, or around or beside something, like small bushes, poles, fences or walls, while vaalud are thin and long like waves and aren't usually bound to obstacles, but form on flat even terrain and move with the wind like sand dunes.

Naava wrote:If I've understood it correctly, then hang is like all the sand in the desert while vaal is just one dune. :hmm:
It seems that Finnish hanki and Estonian hang have different meanings. Hang is maybe like lumikinos?
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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Naava » 2019-01-13, 11:56

ainurakne wrote:
Naava wrote:If I've understood it correctly, then hang is like all the sand in the desert while vaal is just one dune. :hmm:
It seems that Finnish hanki and Estonian hang have different meanings. Hang is maybe like lumikinos?

Indeed, I wasn't aware of this because I've only seen it in text (in Estonian) and the meaning was so close that I never thought it wouldn't be the same. :D After reading your description, I'd say hang is kinos and vaal is nietos. But is there a word for Finnish hanki ('snow on the ground') in Estonian?

Offtopic but thanks to this thread, I now have the Christmas song On hanget korkeat nietokset ('There's high piles of snow') stuck in my head. :roll:

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby ainurakne » 2019-01-13, 13:02

Naava wrote:But is there a word for Finnish hanki ('snow on the ground') in Estonian?
Wiktionary gives two meaning: lumevaip (snow on the ground; lit. carpet of snow) and lumekoorik (the hard crust on the snow on the ground).
I think, depending on the context, one could also use the plural hanged. Or the state form hanges (differs from regular inessive in the aspect that it is always in the strong grade) when some place is in the state of having lots of snow on the ground.
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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-01-13, 16:32

ainurakne wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:raudteerööbas railroad track
Isn't it more like railroad rail?
Railroad track seems to be a lot more than that: rails + fasteners + railroad ties + ballast + underlying subgrade.

Ha, yeah, you are right. I was thinking as I wrote the translation that "railroad track" didn't seem right in the singular, but I couldn't figure out why. You got it: in the singular it's not a track but a rail, since the track is the whole thing. Your English seems better than mine here because I also wouldn't have known what to call "ballast and underlying subgrade" in English either and was thinking of "a track" as a single rail. :oops:

Anyway, thanks to all three of you for the information about lumevaal. I had some difficulty figuring it out. The dictionaries gave the meanings I posted [EKSS: kokkuvajunud lumevall (maanteel); ÕS: kokkuvajunud lumeviirg maanteel] but searching for photos I got the impression that actual usage was a bit wider than that.
Lumevaal at the side of the road:
Image
Lumevaal in the frozen sea:
Image
Lumevaal under the eaves:
Image
Plus several lumevaalu like this, descriptions of which gave me the impression it also includes the snow pushed aside or crushed between the areas cleared by tire treads:
Image
Image

Also, I didn't list it, but another new word for me is kokkuvajunud, which my Estonian-English dictionaries list as deflated, collapsed, broken down. That re-enforced my impression that the lumevaal included the snow that had been pushed together by the tires.
From various dictionaries:
kokku vajuma to crash out, to sag, to collapse, to break down, to subside (together), to fall or collapse slowly, to sink down, to break down

(By the way, does anyone know how to adjust the size of images so that they are smaller when I post them? I think I used to know how to do that, but apparently I've forgotten. I would have liked to do that above so that this post didn't take up so much space on the page/screen, but I don't know how.)

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby ainurakne » 2019-01-13, 19:11

Linguaphile wrote:Your English seems better than mine here because I also wouldn't have known what to call "ballast and underlying subgrade" in English either and was thinking of "a track" as a single rail. :oops:
Unfortunately I have to disappoint you, it's pure Wikipedia. I just couldn't believe that rööbas could be translated as track, and did a quick Google search.


I guess lumevaal could be quite a subjective thing then. Whatever anyone associates with the word, depending on how the people around them used the word when they were growing up.

For me personally, I wouldn't call the thing on the first photo lumevaal. Lumehang at most maybe. I think it can't be even properly called lumevall, as it's so tiny and unimpressive for that. :lol:
The second photo of the frozen sea - maybe.
The third: lumeviirg or lumeriba at most.

For me, lumevaalud on the roads are these things that go across the road (although on these photos they are really tiny):
Image
Image
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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-01-27, 1:25

halvakspanevalt disapprovingly
hanereas in single file
kambakesi as a group
kiinduma to become fond of; to get attached to
sinikas bruise
toolileen back [of a chair]
tügastus disgust, loathing, aversion
vakstu oilcloth (vahariie)

härjapõlvlane dwarf, leprechaun ([one whose height reaches] an ox's knee)

ninaesine food, chow, grub (lit. [that which is] in front of [one's] nose)

pilbas splinter, sliver, long thin piece of wood
pilbasteks peksma to wreak havoc

plinder predicament, quandary
plindris olema to be in a tight spot, to be in a pickle
plindrisse sattuma to get oneself into a fix, get into mischief
kedagi plindrisse jätma to leave someone high and dry

redu hiding place
redus in hiding
redutama to hide out, to lie low, to be in hiding

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Prantsis » 2019-02-15, 23:19

nagu kulutuli like wildfire
kas nui neljaks by hook or by crook
mööndus concession
"Ta ei näinud välja rohkem kui maksimaalselt nelikümmend viis, sedagi mööndustega."
soolaleivapidu housewarming
kõrvetis heartburn

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-02-19, 18:43

auring victory lap
hajevil disconcerted
kulistama to gobble, guggle (sound of turkeys and of pouring/drinking liquids)
kütkestama to captivate, enthrall
kütkestav captivating, enthralling, (of a person) attractive
leidlikkus resourcefulness
lävima to communicate with, socialize
lühkarid shorts (= lühikesed püksid)
maardla mineral deposit (naftamaardla oil field)
mõikama to sink in, realize, have an effect
poolmõru bittersweet
selmet instead of (= selle asemel et)
vahepala interlude (i.e., in music)

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-03-12, 3:44

päädima = to end, to be at a peak, to culminate
Pikk põud päädis sajuga.
Läbirääkimised päädivad lepinguga.

jots = tip (jootraha)
Ta ei jäta kunagi jotsi.

limps = lemonade (limonaad)
Lapsed tahavad limpsi juua.

hea partii = a "good catch"
Ta tegi abielludes väga hea partii.
Mees peab ennast heaks partiiks.

vilistlane = graduate, alumnus
Ülikool kutsub vilistlasi kokkutulekule.
Meie vilistlaste seas on ettevõtjaid, teadlasi, õpetajaid ja poliitikuid.

kui peo peal in the open, on display, easily seen
Mäe tipust vaadates paistab mererannik kui peo peal.

sappa võtma to get in line, queue up, join the line
Võtsin pikka sappa ja vaatasin murelikult kella.

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Prantsis » 2019-03-30, 23:56

käemees = käendaja guarantor
kihvtitama = mürgitama to poison
õgvendama to straighten

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Prantsis » 2019-04-25, 20:37

refleks reflex (n.)
reflektoorne reflex (adj.)

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Prantsis » 2019-05-21, 15:26

isiklikkus hostility, aggressiveness

loomuldasa = loomu poolest, loomult
And there are others :D : kehaldasa, sisuldasa, ajaldasa, kõlaldasa, kasvuldasa...

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Naava » 2019-05-21, 16:38

Prantsis wrote:loomuldasa = loomu poolest, loomult
And there are others :D : kehaldasa, sisuldasa, ajaldasa, kõlaldasa, kasvuldasa...

Wow, that looks like a possessive suffix! I didn't know there's any remnants of that left in Estonian. :o Does anyone happen to know if there are more words that have a possessive suffix or is it only used in "x poolest"?

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-05-22, 0:40

Naava wrote:
Prantsis wrote:loomuldasa = loomu poolest, loomult
And there are others :D : kehaldasa, sisuldasa, ajaldasa, kõlaldasa, kasvuldasa...

Wow, that looks like a possessive suffix! I didn't know there's any remnants of that left in Estonian. :o Does anyone happen to know if there are more words that have a possessive suffix or is it only used in "x poolest"?

-ldasa seems to be mainly used to express "x poolest" and similar meanings (sometimes "x järgi" or a synonym for an adverb ending in -lt or -tsi), and it seems to take the form -tasa in some words.
-ldasa is not a productive suffix so there are a limited number of words it can be attached to. Many of them seem to be uncommon or older forms that aren't often used.

I think that -ldasa is one of the suffixes that arose from the language reforms a century or so ago, but many of those changes were based on other Estonian dialects (or on Finnish), so that doesn't necessarily mean its usage is not older than that.

I found the following examples in Saagpakk's Estonian-English dictionary, some marked as "old" or "rare" usage:

-ldasa
ajaldasa in time
aruldasa as for one's reason/intellect/sense; reasonably
ealdasa according to one's age, as for one's age
kasvuldasa as for growth
loomuldasa by nature, according to one's nature
näoldasa as regards one's face, concerning one's face
rammuldasa as regards person's strength
sisuldasa as regards the content

-tasa
rumalutasa as regards a person's foolishness, silliness, etc.
hullutasa owing to his madness
kavalutasa through cunning, by cunning
naljatasa jestingly, for fun
pisitasa gradually, little by little
suurutasa in size, as regards size, according to size
sügavutasa as for depth, owing to depth

From nonstandard dialects (i.e., older regional forms) I also found the following:

-ldasa
harvaldasa rarely, infrequently, seldom (= harva) (northeastern coast)
himuldasa avidly, eagerly, greedily (=himukalt) (northeastern coast)
karvaldasa in color, with regards to color (=värvuselt) (northeastern coast)
laialdasa broadly, widely (=laialt) (northeastern coast)
käsildasa by hand (=käsitsi) (western coast)
pereldasa as regards the family, concerning the family (=pere poolest) (northern Peipsi coast)
korreldasa as regards the straw, concerning the straw (=kõrre poolest) (northern coast)

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby stordragon » 2019-05-22, 3:28

Linguaphile wrote:-ldasa seems to be mainly used to express "x poolest" and similar meanings (sometimes "x järgi" or a synonym for an adverb ending in -lt or -tsi), and it seems to take the form -tasa in some words.
-ldasa is not a productive suffix so there are a limited number of words it can be attached to. Many of them seem to be uncommon or older forms that aren't often used.

https://www.eki.ee/books/ekkr/sm41.html
-ldasa on ebaproduktiivne liide tähenduses ‘poolest’: kasv : kasvu > kasvu/ldasa = kasvu poolest, ealdasa, aruldasa, sisuldasa, loomuldasa, ajaldasa. Liitub omastava tüvele.
I believe almost each & every one of them is archaic or uncommon. I've never seen this before from any large corpus of text!

From nonstandard dialects (i.e., older regional forms) I also found the following:

-ldasa
harvaldasa rarely, infrequently, seldom (= harva) (northeastern coast)
himuldasa avidly, eagerly, greedily (=himukalt) (northeastern coast)
karvaldasa in color, with regards to color (=värvuselt) (northeastern coast)
laialdasa broadly, widely (=laialt) (northeastern coast)
käsildasa by hand (=käsitsi) (western coast)
pereldasa as regards the family, concerning the family (=pere poolest) (northern Peipsi coast)
korreldasa as regards the straw, concerning the straw (=kõrre poolest) (northern coast)

http://www.folklore.ee/Synaraamat/
Not a single match is found for -ldasa in this võro(seto)-eesti synaraamat, and chances are it's even less common in the inland dialects. Could it consist of -lt + as(j)a (omastav of asi)?? It's hard to imagine a life without using -lt, -sti etc. in Estonian adverbs, etc.. :lol:
Last edited by stordragon on 2019-05-22, 4:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-05-22, 4:26

stordragon wrote:http://www.folklore.ee/Synaraamat/
Not a single match is found in this võro(seto)-eesti synaraamat

Right; they are not found in Võro or southern Estonian dialects. The dialect variants seem to be concentrated in the north and northeast, such as around Kuusalu and Iisaku/Torma. Here is a link to some words that use this ending in Estonian dialects: -ldasa @ VMS. You can click on the word "kaart" after each entry to see a map with the regions in which the word was used.

And here is a link to the Eesti keele seletav sõnaraamat entries for these words: -ldasa @ EKSS. Most of the entries indicate that they are either old (VAN) or uncommon (HRV). They also give some sentence examples taken from Estonian literature.
The Eesti õigekeelsussõnaraamat from 1918 lists a few more that I hadn't found earlier: -ldasa @ ÕS 1918. They were more common at that time. It's definitely still possible to come across words like these, though, especially when reading older literature.

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby stordragon » 2019-05-22, 4:40

Linguaphile wrote:
stordragon wrote:http://www.folklore.ee/Synaraamat/
Not a single match is found in this võro(seto)-eesti synaraamat

Right; they are not found in Võro or southern Estonian dialects. The dialect variants seem to be concentrated in the north and northeast, such as around Kuusalu and Iisaku/Torma. Here is a link to some words that use this ending in Estonian dialects: -ldasa @ VMS. You can click on the word "kaart" after each entry to see a map with the regions in which the word was used.

And here is a link to the Eesti keele seletav sõnaraamat entries for these words: -ldasa @ EKSS. Most of the entries indicate that they are either old (VAN) or uncommon (HRV). They also give some sentence examples taken from Estonian literature.
The Eesti õigekeelsussõnaraamat from 1918 lists a few more that I hadn't found earlier: -ldasa @ ÕS 1918. They were more common at that time. It's definitely still possible to come across words like these, though, especially when reading older literature.

Cool, thanks Linguaphile!

However, :hmm: any thoughts about the origin of this suffix?

https://manualzz.com/doc/17831345/finsk ... edel-fu-25

You can imagine how surprised I am to see this adverbial suffix which ends with the vowel "-a" from among a bunch of others..

SUFFIXES.png
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Hvat krevst fyri at kunnast við aðrar mentanir? Tað er fyrst og fremst teirra mál!(á føroyskum)
Dovddan earenoamážit beroštumi suoma-ugrálaš giellajoavkku dutkamuššii.(davvisámegillii)
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