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Yes!Linguaphile wrote:(By the way: Ainurakne, have I understood the idiomatic meaning of nagu lepse reega correctly? I know that literally it's "like an alderwood sled.")
Or could refer to something like a magic wand in general.Linguaphile wrote:nõiavits divining rod
kunst- (e.g. kunsthammas, kunstmaterjal, etc) often stands for kunstlik and thus is synonymous to tehis-. And I'm pretty sure kunstkeel = tehiskeel.Linguaphile wrote:kunstkeel artistic language, artlang
ainurakne wrote:Yes!Linguaphile wrote:(By the way: Ainurakne, have I understood the idiomatic meaning of nagu lepse reega correctly? I know that literally it's "like an alderwood sled.")
Hmm, I had only ever heard it as "nagu lepase reega"Or could refer to something like a magic wand in general.Linguaphile wrote:nõiavits divining rodkunst- (e.g. kunsthammas, kunstmaterjal, etc) often stands for kunstlik and thus is synonymous to tehis-. And I'm pretty sure kunstkeel = tehiskeel.Linguaphile wrote:kunstkeel artistic language, artlang
ainurakne wrote:eede = ettepanek
eetma = ette panema, ettepanekut tegema
Yes, I checked it out too before commenting, and was surprised that there is indeed an alternate version.Linguaphile wrote:So it seems that both versions exist. I assume from your comment that nagu lepase reega is more common.
ainurakne wrote:Yes, I checked it out too before commenting, and was surprised that there is indeed an alternate version.Linguaphile wrote:So it seems that both versions exist. I assume from your comment that nagu lepase reega is more common.
Nagu lepase reega is (infinitely) more common at least among the people/sources that I have had contact with.
(or maybe I just haven't paid attention when hearing the alternate version)
I imagine it as rummaging with such a speed/intensity that things (especially papers) are flying around (which is different from tuhnima which is kind of like calm rummaging).Linguaphile wrote:tuulama to rummage (also to winnow; I think to winnow is the original meaning and to rummage added by extension)
ainurakne wrote:A bit similar to the word tormama which is interestingly also related to wind ("storm" to be exact).
Naava wrote:ainurakne wrote:A bit similar to the word tormama which is interestingly also related to wind ("storm" to be exact).
What does tormama mean?
Yes! For example, it's often used for running really fast (often while being uncautious or oblivious of one's surroundings) or when rushing into (doing) something without taking any time to think first.Linguaphile wrote:To rush, to dash, to bolt....Naava wrote:What does tormama mean?ainurakne wrote:A bit similar to the word tormama which is interestingly also related to wind ("storm" to be exact).
Prantsis wrote:karuteene disservice
kassiahastus hangover
siililegi selge very clear and obvious
sinilind inaccessible thing being pursued
kiinijooks mad running
Linguaphile wrote:*Are there no actual bluebirds in Estonia? Or are they just really difficult to catch? LOL. Actually, I suppose the expression comes from folklore. Like the sinisirje linnukene who lays colorful eggs in colorful bushes; this is not a real bird so you're never going to catch one.
Prantsis wrote:I'm struggling with translating a selection from my notes into English. Feel free to correct my definitions/translations if you think they can be improved.
Prantsis wrote:Actually they haven't really made up their mind what colour uncatchable birds are. Here's a golden one
ainurakne wrote:Yes! For example, it's often used for running really fast (often while being uncautious or oblivious of one's surroundings) or when rushing into (doing) something without taking any time to think first.Linguaphile wrote:To rush, to dash, to bolt....Naava wrote:What does tormama mean?ainurakne wrote:A bit similar to the word tormama which is interestingly also related to wind ("storm" to be exact).
Linguaphile wrote:karuteene disservice = bear-service
*Are there no actual bluebirds in Estonia? Or are they just really difficult to catch? LOL.
Linguaphile wrote:Your translations seem perfectly fine to me. They are the correct ones (I mean, you couldn't actually use my translation "bear-service" in English, no one would understand; you'd have to say "disservice".) My literal translations weren't meant as corrections or replacements for yours, just meant to point out (for anyone reading here, not specifically you, since I think you know already) the meanings of the words they're made up of too.
Naava wrote:In the fable, a man and a bear are friends. One day the man falls asleep, and a fly comes and sits on his face. The bear wants to help the man and hits the fly with a stone. Both the fly and the man die.
Naava wrote:And hey, thanks for the songs! I really like Hällilaul! I've heard it before but I can't remember where. Is it from a film?
Prantsis wrote:That's almost exactly how I was picturing it. An eight feet tall teddy bear that wants you absolutely no harm, but just can't help doing disservices, because it's too big and as clumsy as it's cute.
Prantsis wrote:tuult tallama (Fr. brasser du vent)
tuuletallaja, tuuletallamine
Naava wrote:*Are there no actual bluebirds in Estonia? Or are they just really difficult to catch? LOL.
Actually, no, there are no bluebirds in Estonia. Looks like you can only find them in the Americas. I had never seen one before googling it.
It's possible Estonia has some birds we don't have here (and vice versa), but what I've seen, most of them are the same and rather dull in colour
Naava wrote:Loomine was surprising because the lyrics remind me of Kalevala but the melody was nothing like what I expected. It's very beautiful.
Naava wrote:The man's Sulo Karjalainen and the bear's Juuso. They're somewhat famous.
But you feed birds in winter; they actually stay for winter and don't fly south?
There are lots of melodies for that type of song in Estonia. For example, both of these have similar lyrics to the one I posted earlier, but different melodies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmplmxzXjHs
http://www.folklore.ee/UTfolkl/loengud/ ... laul5.html
Oh, you've got to love a country where blue-colored birds are mythical but famous bears are known by name.
Linguaphile wrote:Prantsis wrote:tuult tallama (Fr. brasser du vent)
tuuletallaja, tuuletallamine
I'm not sure; I'm not familiar with the expressions in Estonian or French. But when I tried looking both up, the Estonian one seemed to have to do with doing "empty work"; it is translated as "potter" or "putter" in some dictionaries. (I might say: "he's just puttering around, not really accomplishing anything.") But the French one is translated online as "to blow hot air" and seems to have more to do with "empty words", i.e. with talk rather than work. So I'm not sure if I'm understanding either one correctly.
Prantsis wrote:Linguaphile wrote:Prantsis wrote:tuult tallama (Fr. brasser du vent)
tuuletallaja, tuuletallamine
I'm not sure; I'm not familiar with the expressions in Estonian or French. But when I tried looking both up, the Estonian one seemed to have to do with doing "empty work"; it is translated as "potter" or "putter" in some dictionaries. (I might say: "he's just puttering around, not really accomplishing anything.") But the French one is translated online as "to blow hot air" and seems to have more to do with "empty words", i.e. with talk rather than work. So I'm not sure if I'm understanding either one correctly.
The French "brasser du vent" isn't specific to "empty words", like "to blow hot air" seems to be. As far as I can tell, "brasser du vent" and "tuult tallama" are essentially the same image and share the same definition. And the Estonian expression can also be used for "empty words":
One of the example sentences in EKSS: Kui inimestele kirjutada eetilist käsiraamatut, siis tuleb lähtuda i n i m e s e põhiomadustest ja -tungidest. Muidu peksad tühja tuult. M. Metsanurk.
An example sentence in Eesti fraseologismide elektrooniline alussõnastik: Meie rääkimine on nagu tühja tuule tallamine.
Or in this Wikipedia article: Aga et praeguselt valitsuselt seda loota ei ole, siis on kõik see deklaratsioon ainult tühi tuuletallamine.
Naava wrote:They all sound so... cheery? The melodies I'm used to are like these:
- Some of the melodies without lyrics
- Song Challenge, where Väinämöinen and Joukahainen test who's stronger (Joukahainen loses, Väinämöinen sings him into a swamp. In order to save himself, Joukahainen promises his only sister to Väinämöinen. His mother is happy, but the sister is not. In the end, she drowns herself because she doesn't want to be married to an old man.)
- Runo #43 from Kalevala Väinämöinen and Lemminkäinen have stolen a treasure from Louhi, who's coming after them.
- Sleep, sleep, grass bird (The same melodies have been used for stories, spells, and lullabies alike.) A lullaby, which my mum used to sing to me. Very relevant to the topic; the lyrics are full of birds.
- A runo from Viena, where they seem to have used the same melodies. Väinämöinen hits himself with an axe and goes to find a house where he could be healed.
Because the metre is the same, I thought the Estonian songs would sound like this, too. Well, I was wrong.
Naava wrote:But you can try to sing the Estonian songs with these melodies or the Finnish/Karelian songs with Estonian melodies, and it should work. If you do, upload it to youtube - I'd like to hear that.
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