Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

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Linguaphile
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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-06-15, 21:12

kätt valgeks saama to get one's first or only points in sports or one's first or only catch in fishing; to have a low score (or small catch) that is better than nothing, but not great

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-06-21, 4:12

kirsa combat boots (in context was used as a metaphor, kirsade all tallama, referring to soldiers repressing ideas)
mõttemall thought pattern, way of thinking
pilkepilt caricature
verisulis young, inexperienced; literally refers to a bird's immature feathers (verisulg)

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-06-23, 20:49

lävima communicate with, socialize with
parema puudumisel for lack of anything better
vine haze, vapor

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-06-26, 3:21

inter hostel (intris in the hostel), short for internaat
kellelegi nina pihta andma to bring someone down a notch
virvarr clutter, jumble (helide virvarr babel)

Also, just realized how many different words there are for laptop computer:
sülearvuti, sülekas, süler, rüperaal, rüpekas, läpakas....

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-07-05, 17:24

ilkuma to gloat, to express malicious joy
küünalt vaka all hoidma to conceal one's knowledge or skills
pilaobjekt object of ridicule
sarjama to criticize severely

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-07-10, 3:22

eelarvekärped budget cuts
fopaa faux pas, gaff
krahh collapse, crash
miilama smoulder
RKT = rahvamajanduse kogutoodang gross national product (GNP)
seaduseelnõu bill, draft legislation, legislative proposal

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-07-16, 14:35

aisting sensory experience, sense perception, sensation
elavaloomuline lively, full of vigor
elurikkus biodiversity
heiastuma to reflect light, to appear as a mirage
keelevaist language instinct
kuhtuma to languish
raugastuma to become aged, become senile
suur surmaga with great difficulty

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Naava
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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Naava » 2021-07-16, 16:51

Linguaphile wrote:suur surmaga with great difficulty

Finnish has (ei) suurin surminkaan ("not even with great deaths", meaning that you would absolutely never (dare to) do something). I wonder if these idioms are related to each other or if it's just a coincidence. :hmm:

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-07-16, 21:01

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:suur surmaga with great difficulty

Finnish has (ei) suurin surminkaan ("not even with great deaths", meaning that you would absolutely never (dare to) do something). I wonder if these idioms are related to each other or if it's just a coincidence. :hmm:

Interesting! I have no idea. I tried looking up suurin surminkaan in the Finnish-Estonian dictionary just now and it suggests (ei) mingi hinna eest or (ei) mingil tingimusel, nothing with surma. In that dictionary suure surmaga appears as one possible way to translate täpärästi.

I also haven't found an English translation for suure surmaga anywhere ("with great difficulty" was mine based on dictionaries below). Here's what I did find:

[FRS] Fraseoloogiasõnaraamat: suure surmaga; suure surma peale läbi häda, hädavaevalt, suure vaevaga, suurte pingutustega

[ÕS]Eesti õigekeelsussõnaraamat ÕS 2018: Surmaga pooleks v suure surmaga v suure surma peale suurivaevu

[SYS] Sünonüümisõnastik vaevaliselt, [suure] vaevaga, läbi häda, läbi surma, suure surmaga, hädaga pooleks, surmaga pooleks, patuga pooleks, suurivaevu, [suure] hädaga, hädavaevalt, hädamisi, hädapärast, hädavaevu, kuidagimoodi, kuidagi, üle kivide ja kändude, kuidagiviisi, miskit moodi, läbi raskuste, hädapäraselt, nii hästi-halvasti (hästi-kurjasti) kui saab; vt ka visalt

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-07-20, 4:45

asjassepühendamatutele to the uninitiated
kantseliit bureaucratic jargon, officialese
pähe turgatama to pop into one's head, cross one's mind
tähendamissõna parable

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-07-30, 15:12

habemik person with a long beard
lennujuhtimiskeskus air-traffic control, ATC
mansetinööbid cufflinks
villast viskama to lie, fib, joke

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-08-22, 18:38

lõhik half-log
pirtsakas finicky, persnickety
tallel in storage, stored away (anywhere, not literally in a tall)

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Naava » 2021-08-22, 19:19

Linguaphile wrote:tallel in storage, stored away (anywhere, not literally in a tall)

Finnish has tallella (and tallessa) too! It apparently comes from the word *talsi, but Wiktionary doesn't have a page for it and I've never heard of that word before. Can you find or do you happen to know what it means?

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-08-22, 20:22

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:tallel in storage, stored away (anywhere, not literally in a tall)

Finnish has tallella (and tallessa) too! It apparently comes from the word *talsi, but Wiktionary doesn't have a page for it and I've never heard of that word before. Can you find or do you happen to know what it means?

My Estonian etymological sources says nothing about *talsi but instead offer various possibilities including a connection to Swedish or German Stall (and therefore Estonian tall and Finnish talli) or from the same root as the verbs talitama (take care of) or taluma (bear, survive, sustain).
Talsi is a surname in southern Estonian (meaning "winter" I believe) and a placename in Latvia, the placename supposedly derived from a Livonian word meaning "secluded place". No idea if there is any connection to this *talsi word.
All of them kind of make sense in a theoretical way... is what is "stored away" the stuff you keep in the stable (tall)? the stuff you take care of (talitama) for later? the stuff that will help you survive (taluma)? the stuff you've put away for winter (talv/tali/talsi)? the stuff you keep stored in a secluded place (*talusse)?.... :hmm: ) but I don't know which is the actual origin or if it's even one of those at all.
To be honest I had assumed it was related to tall (stable, barn), but that's talli rather than talle, so I don't know. For that to happen I would think tallel would have had to have entered the language independently of tall rather than being directly derived from it.

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Naava » 2021-08-22, 21:52

Linguaphile wrote:My Estonian etymological sources says nothing about *talsi but instead offer various possibilities including a connection to Swedish or German Stall (and therefore Estonian tall and Finnish talli)

I don't think it could be Stall because
1) its stem is talle-, but talli's stem is talli- (e.g. tallella vs tallilla)
2) its strong grade stem is talte- (e.g. talteen , to put away, to put into a safe space)

You could argue the -t- is just an analogy and that it was influenced by words like pelti : pellillä ('sheet metal'), but I haven't heard of any new(ish) loan words that would have the same kind of i-e change as native words, like lumi : lumet, nimi : nimet, but pankki : pankit, väri : värit.

I tried to google it too. I managed to find one page where the Helsinki city library is quoting two books and says that old book Finnish had the nominatives talte, talle, and talsi (that must be where Wiktionary had got *talsi), but they also added that it's speculated if these had been reconstructed "afterwards" instead of taken from a living language. It doesn't say there who'd reconstructed them or when. (As a sidenote, they also point out there's the word tallelokero 'a safe deposit box' that has the (possibly reconstructed) nominative of tallella. And a Finnish magazine of linguistics says a bank once had wished to use talle for deposit, but Kotus had recommended tallete instead. Both tallelokero and tallete are still in use.)

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-08-22, 23:53

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:My Estonian etymological sources says nothing about *talsi but instead offer various possibilities including a connection to Swedish or German Stall (and therefore Estonian tall and Finnish talli)

I don't think it could be Stall because
1) its stem is talle-, but talli's stem is talli- (e.g. tallella vs tallilla)
2) its strong grade stem is talte- (e.g. talteen , to put away, to put into a safe space

Right, unless both were loaned from Stall independently; if some phrase using Stall was loaned with the "storage" meaning and the talle stem, and at some other time Stall was loaned with the "stable" meaning and given the talli stem. They would have always been considered separate words, with different forms, but both from Stall. No idea if that actually happened though. It was just the only explanation I could come up with for the -e versus -i.

The Estonian etymological dictionary really takes you in circles with this one.

For tallel it says On oletatud, et sama tüvi mis tald. Vt ka talitama.

So then you go to tald and it says Tõenäoliselt tuletis tallama tüvest. On arvatud, et sõna on osaliselt segunenud skandinaavia laenuga tüvest, mille vasted on vanaislandi stallr 'alus; altar; auguga puu, kuhu toetub masti alumine ots; tall; sõim', rootsi stall 'tall; sõidukite hoiukoht'; mrd 'nugade vms alus seinal; viiuliroop'. Segunemine on tõenäolisem nendes läänemeresoome keeltes, kus kehaosa tähendust ei tunta. Vt ka tall1 ja tallel.

Looking up tallama doesn't give us anything new: Läänemeresoome või läänemeresoome-permi tüvi. Vt ka tald.

Tall1 mentioned above is actually the word for a young goat or sheep but it has the right talle stem with -e and aside from a possible connection to Hebrew (ṭāleh 'lambatall') the entry tells us that another meaning of tald in old dialects was a (human) kid: On ka oletatud, et sõnas on sama tüvi kui tald, mille üks tähendusi on vanemas murdekeeles olnud 'põngerjas'. That's nice but meaning-wise it seems we're getting further and further away from our original word (tallel) here.

So let's try the other word referenced in the original entry, talitama: On oletatud, et sama tüvi mis sõnas taluma ja/või taltuma, mõjutanud võib olla ka sõna tallel tüvi. Vt ka talitsema.

So now we've got to look up taluma and we get Läänemeresoome tüvi. Vt ka talitama ja taltuma and we're just going in circles.

So we'll try the word taltuma referenced above and we get Võib olla tuletis taluma tüvest. Vt ka talitama ja talitsema. Still going in circles.

So our last hope is the only referenced word that we haven't looked up yet, talitsema, and it says Võib olla tuletis taltuma tüvest. Vormiliselt saab tõlgendada talitsema tuletisena.

So yeah. Lots of words that might be connected to each other but no indication of where any of them came from. The entries just reference each other. And the other odd thing is that most of them are infixed verbs, which are usually derivatives themselves, but aside from Stall, Old Norse stallr and the various forms and meanings of tall there's not much indication of what they might be derived from.

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-08-24, 0:58

ilmaasjata in vain
mõõt täis saama to have had enough, to have had it, to have reached one's limit
põhku pugema to go to bed, to hit the sack
siirderiitus rite of passage
suts a little, a small amount
suts maad a short distance

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-08-25, 22:21

kroogitud gathered, ruffled
kurrutatud corrugated, ruffled
leease hearth (in northern dialects)
rööpkülik parallelogram (rööpkülikukujuline parallelogram-shaped, in the shape of a parallelogram)
trapets trapezoid; trapeze (trapetsikujuline trapezoidal, in the shape of a trapezoid)
tuhkhaud hearth (in southern dialects)
tärge (tärkme) small hole, notch

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-09-04, 20:54

ike yoke
jõhv horsehair (of mane, tail)
look shaft bow, collar bow (of horse harness)
putk hollow stalk (of a plant), straw, tube
rakkes olema to be in harness; to be busy with work, to be tied up with work

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Re: Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-09-19, 19:27

karjasepõlv time of being a shepherd; shepherd's life
kruustangid vice, bench clamp (should have been *kruvitangid but isn't because it was loaned from old Low German Schruwstangen independently of kruvi and tangid)
kruupink carpenter's workbench


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