Linguaphile wrote:Awww, it's nice to hear what your grandma sounded like.
Thanks for the links and information!
I wonder why she sounds so much like my grandma. Maybe it's the intonation pattern and something in her voice, too.
And I have to admit my knowledge of Finnish geography is so limited that I hadn't realized Ostrobothnia and Pohjanmaa were the same place. (Sorry, don't be mad.
) I had assumed Pohjanmaa was further north.
I'm already used to hear people say Finland is "somewhere in Africa, right?" so that you not knowing that Ostrobothnia and Pohjanmaa are the same place is no big deal.
Also, it's confusing af. This is Etelä-Pohjanmaa
(South Ostrobothnia). This is Keski-Pohjanmaa
(Middle Ostrobothnia). This is Pohjois-Pohjanmaa
(North Ostrobothnia). This is Pohjanmaa
(Ostrobothnia). This is also Pohjanmaa
(Ostrobothnia). The last one is a historical province, though, so it's rarely mentioned.
And, when people speak of "pohjalaiset" and "Pohjanmaa", what they usually mean is Southern Ostrobothnia...
(Okay, that's because I was thinking of it like põhja.
It never ceases to amuse me that põhi means both "north" and "base, low part." Finnish is only slightly less confusing with pohja/pohjois and since I get those two mixed up anyway, the fact that they are different words doesn't really even help me. I still can't remember which is which half the time. I just think, okay, that's like põhja
. It must be "north".)
It does mean 'north', too.
For example, North Star is Pohjantähti in Finnish. Pohjoinen is just pohja + the adjective marker -inen. (...which is -ne in Estonian, eg. eestlane
etc) You can add the -inen to all of them, except koillinen
* which I have never seen without -inen:
pohja - pohjoinen
itä - itäinen
kaakko - kaakkoinen
etelä - eteläinen
lounas - lounainen
länsi - läntinen
luode - luoteinen
That's why I never saw the connection between Pohjanlahti and Pohjanmaa - I tought they mean "north gulf" and "bottom land".
It was only when I learnt Pohjanlahti is called Gulf of Bothnia in English that I realised it might not be 'north' after all...
*I checked and it says that it's formed from the word koi, 'sunrise', 'dawn', so the marker is actually -llinen which means "having X"; so, northeast is literally "having sunrise".
It's like someone with a twisted sense of humor was inventing words for the two languages by sitting around in a snowy forest someplace saying "hehehe... let's get them really lost." LOL.
I swear this is how the grammar of Finnic languages came to be.
ainurakne wrote:I also noticed that the word-final m hasn't changed into n in some places. Especially "om".
Not really; that's assimilation and it happens even in Standard Finnish. /n/ becomes [m] before /m/ and /p/ (and [ŋ] before /k/, and [n̪] before /t/... poor /n/!) It's not usually shown in writing, but sometimes when people write in a dialect, they try to include everything
ainurakne wrote:What's the audible difference? Is it more monotonous, like "regular" Finnish?
She doesn't use as many dialectal features as I would expect, and she uses more spoken Finnish features that I would've expected.
For example, she says 'täl' instead of 'tällä' (adessive of 'tämä', this) and she doesn't have /h/ in words like "asutaan siellä ja ollaa ja viihdytää" (instead of "asutahan siälä ja ollahan ja viihrytähän", which would be 100% in the dialect). It might be that she's nervous about the recording (people tend to speak more formal when there's a microphone nearby) because she starts to have more dialect features after some time: in the 2/3 part, she says "herättihin aamulla ja mentihin saunahan" and not the spoken Finnish "herättii(n) aamul(la) ja mentii(n) saunaa(n)". There's also something that is hard to describe - the best way I could phrase it is that her voice sounds too tense. It might be something with the vowels, but it's almost impossible to say for sure.
ainurakne wrote:"Lõuna" is midday or the lunch time. The time of day when the sun is somewhere around south-east to south-west, depending on how early or late the lunch is traditionally held.
"Edel" referred to the front side of the dwelling - where the entrance (or the hole in the wall, if we're talking about ancient times) is located. The entrance was placed towards the direction where the sun was the hottest, in order to accumulate heat during the day. So again, approximately the same direction.
That makes so much sense. I've always been wondering why one of the directions is called "lunch"! Thanks!
Linguaphile wrote: ainurakne wrote:
Haha, some of 8b sound kind of like Estonian.
Wow, it really does! Or Votic.
That's true - there are some similarities between Estonian and Karelian dialects. Btw my other grandma is from the area 8a.1a
are also closer to Estonian than what other Finnish dialects are. There used to be lots of trading and so on which is why the language developed similarly to Estonian there.