Kloie's thread for questions

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kloie
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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-10, 20:46

Üliõpilased ei armasta keemiahoones töötada,kuid peavad seal töötama.
I don't understand why töötama is used instead of õppima. And what is keemiahoone?

Linguaphile
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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-10, 23:52

kloie wrote:Üliõpilased ei armasta keemiahoones töötada,kuid peavad seal töötama.
I don't understand why töötama is used instead of õppima. And what is keemiahoone?

I think it is because the students are probably working on projects or research or experiments there (for example, working in labs, which is different from "studying" in English too). In this sentence working in this building seems to be one of their requirements, in addition to attending classes and studying. Keemiahoone or chemistry building is just a way of identifying a particular building of a university, i.e.:
https://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartu_%C3%9Clikooli_vana_keemiahoone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeley_G._Mudd_Chemistry_Building
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Arkansas_Chemistry_Building

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-11, 0:01

kloie wrote:Ok! What are the verbs that require the (da) form?

Verbs that have to do with permission, understanding, emotions, desires, ability, trying... though the other way to think of it is basically "all the verbs that don't use the ma-form". It's much harder to make a comprehensive list for the da-form. Anyway, here are some:
armastama
kartma
kavatsema
käskima
laskma
lootma
lubama
meeldima
mõistma
mõtlema
märkama
nägema
oskama
proovima
saama
tahtma
teadma
võima

and impersonal expressions
on hea
on kasulik
on kerge
on raske
on tarvis
on tore
on vaja
saab
tohib
etc.

kloie
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Re: suhelda

Postby kloie » 2017-09-11, 5:31

Ma kardan võõrastega (suhtlema,suhelda) ja kavatsen õppida (suhtlema,suhelda).
What does this mean, and which of the verbs in the brackets should I use?

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ainurakne
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Re: suhelda

Postby ainurakne » 2017-09-11, 6:24

Ma kardan võõrastega suhelda ja kavatsen õppida suhtlema.
I'm afraid to communicate(/socialize) with strangers and I plan to learn how to communicate(/socialize).

The second half is especially tricky, because there is a 3 verb dependency chain: "kavatsema" requires "õppima" to use da-infinitive and õppima requires suhtlema to use ma-infinitive.

NB: such dependency chains may not always be in the same order as the verbs appear in a sentence (e.g: kavatsen suhtlema õppida; kui ma suhtlema õppida kavatsen; etc).
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-11, 10:31

I figured it would be that way,because being afraid is an emotion,and emotions take (da) verbs.

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Re: argata

Postby kloie » 2017-09-11, 13:16

Mul ei ole kerge vara Argata ja tousta ,aga ma pean Arkama.
On tarvis nuud uus avaldus kirjutada,istuge nuud kirjutama.

I don't have any idea what this is saying.

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Re: argata

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-11, 14:17

kloie wrote:Mul ei ole kerge vara Argata ja tousta ,aga ma pean Arkama.
On tarvis nuud uus avaldus kirjutada,istuge nuud kirjutama.

I don't have any idea what this is saying.

Let's see how this goes.... (I'm using a device with very aggressive but weird autocorrect and it doesn't know Estonian) :para:
Anyway....
Mul ei ole kerge vara ärgata ja tõusta, aga ma pean ärkama.
It's not easy for me to wake up early and get up (out of bed), but I must wake up.

On tarvis nüüd uus avaldus kirjutada, istuge nüüd kirjutama.
It's necessary to write a new statement/testimony, sit now to write! (More natural-sounding English: ....now sit down and write it!)

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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-11, 14:44

Ok thanks I'm doing grammar exercises from a website that's in Russian.
What does saia mean? Is it a food
Meil on vaja leiba ja saia osta.
And is this correct:
Tahad, ma opetan send suua tegema.
Kas sa ei oska suua teha?.

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-11, 15:01

kloie wrote:Ok thanks I'm doing grammar exercises from a website that's in Russian.
What does saia mean? Is it a food
Meil on vaja leiba ja saia osta.
And is this correct:
Tahad, ma opetan send suua tegema.
Kas sa ei oska suua teha?.

Meil on vaja leiba ja saia osta.
Sai (saia) is white bread and leib (leiba) is black bread.

Ma õpetan sind süüa tegema.
Kas sa ei oska süüa teha?
Verbs look good! Remember it's important to use ō ä ö ü too. Without them it changes the meaning.

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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-11, 15:54

Ok a few more sentences.
Ta pidi eile meile külla(tulema,tulla) aga ei tulnud.
Sõbrad kutsusid mind õue(mängima,mängida).
Ma ostsin palli,et sellega(mängima,mängida).

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-11, 17:32

kloie wrote:Ok a few more sentences.
Ta pidi eile meile külla(tulema,tulla) aga ei tulnud.
Sõbrad kutsusid mind õue(mängima,mängida).
Ma ostsin palli,et sellega(mängima,mängida).

Ta pidi eile meile külla tulema, aga ei tulnud.
ma-form with pidama
He should have come to visit us yesterday but he didn't come.

Sōbrad kutsusid mind ōue mängima.
ma-form with kutsuma
Friends invited me to play outside.

Ma ostsin palli, et sellega mängida.
da-form with expressions using et, meaning "in order to"
I bought a ball, in order to play with it.
I bought a ball so that I could play with it.

kloie
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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-11, 18:09

What is otepaeaele? I found ii, while doing grammar exercises on a site.
Laehme taena otepaeaele suusatama.
Kas sa oskad pillet aidata?.I don't know the word pillet.

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Re: aitama

Postby Naava » 2017-09-11, 18:32

You sure it's not Otepää?

Pille could be a name. I once had a piano teacher whose name was Pille.

(Btw ae for ä and oe for ö don't work really well; it's difficult to read words like otepaeaele. I suggest you get the Estonian keyboard or use ¨ + a to get ä, although I'm not sure if that works in English keyboard. If you can't use ä, ö or õ, I think it's best to go with a, o and o. The problem with this is that you might not learn them and end up pronouncing words incorrectly.)

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ainurakne
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Re: aitama

Postby ainurakne » 2017-09-11, 18:33

Otepää is a place name, Pille is a female first name.

Lähme täna Otepääle suusatama!
Let's go skiing to Otepää today!

Kas sa oskad Pillet aidata?
Can you help Pille?
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Re: aitama

Postby ainurakne » 2017-09-11, 18:44

Naava wrote:(Btw ae for ä and oe for ö don't work really well; it's difficult to read words like otepaeaele. I suggest you get the Estonian keyboard or use ¨ + a to get ä, although I'm not sure if that works in English keyboard. If you can't use ä, ö or õ, I think it's best to go with a, o and o. The problem with this is that you might not learn them and end up pronouncing words incorrectly.)
Yeah, imagine words like jäääär (jaeaeaeaer) or käekäik (kaeekaeik). :mrgreen:

If all else fails, you can do as Estonians do when there is no Estonian keyboard available: use 2 in place of ä, 6 in place of õ and ö, and y in place of ü.
:P
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-11, 19:22

Yeah, imagine words like jäääär (jaeaeaeaer) or käekäik (kaeekaeik). :mrgreen:

LOL. I remember some Estonian tv show, probably an episode of ENSV, where Paavo or whoever it was received a telegram in Estonian. It was written with oe ae ue and so on, and he read it aloud phonetically. It had a lot of those letters and the way he read it aloud was total gibberish, but the linguist in me thought it was hilarious! Wish I could find it and post the clip here.
I like using this forum on my tablet because I can just hold down the o key and œòôöóõøō all come up as options. Disadvantage: autocorrect (English autocorrect) is on and it makes a mess of Estonian too. On a desktop computer autocorrect isn't such a problem but I have to cut and paste the characters õäöü. Well, you can't have everything.....

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Naava
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Re: aitama

Postby Naava » 2017-09-11, 19:33

ainurakne wrote:(jaeaeaeaer) or käekäik (kaeekaeik). :mrgreen:

I love it when they do this with surnames in various sports. You get things like Haemaelaeinen or Jaeaeskelaeinen (Hämäläinen and Jääskeläinen). :partyhat:

Using 6 and 2 is a clever idea though.

Are there any funny pairs of words in Estonian where the meaning of a sentence would change if the ä and ö/õ were replaced by a and o? I'm thinking of such words as the näin (I saw) vs nain (I married / I slept with) in Finnish.

Linguaphile wrote: On a desktop computer autocorrect isn't such a problem but I have to cut and paste the characters õäöü. Well, you can't have everything.....

Couldn't you download the Estonian keyboard layout? Or is it too different from the US one? You don't know how many mini-heart attacks I had during the years when I didn't know there's more than one keyboard layout, and I accidentally switched it to the English one and suddenly nothing was where it should've been... I thought I had broken the computer somehow! :lol:

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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-11, 19:42

:D I only have a cellphone,so I can't write the special letters,I wrote it that way,because that's what they do with German.

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Re: aitama

Postby Naava » 2017-09-11, 19:47

kloie wrote::D I only have a cellphone,so I can't write the special letters,I wrote it that way,because that's what they do with German.

Have you tried holding the key down for a few seconds? (Lol this sounds like 'have you tried turning it off and on again'! :D )


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