Kloie's thread for questions

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-09-21, 8:29

Naava wrote:A Finnish-Estonian dictionary gave me this:

hakea lapset päiväkodista: lapsed päevakodust ära tuua, lastel päevakodus järel käia (to pick up the kids from daycare)

So I guess you could say ma pean lapsed koolist ära tooma / lastel koolis järel käima?

Those sound good to me, too. My dictionary gives järel käima as a synonym for peale võtma. Also, järele sõitma. (I think it's not a true synonym though, but rather another way to translate "pick up" from English. Maybe peale võtma is what a bus or person picking up a hitchhiker does... picking up whoever is on its route... while järel käima or järele sõitma is what a parent or Uber driver does, going somewhere with the purpose of picking up a person who is there waiting. :?:
Also, in my examples above, I think peale võtma should have the partitive case for the object, as I wrote it, but I forgot to mention that I'm less sure about the case used with koju tooma - lapsi or lapsed? I found examples of both online, but not many of either, which makes me think it's not correct.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Naava » 2019-09-21, 10:36

Linguaphile wrote:Another that comes to mind is ma pean lapsi koolist koju tooma (I have to take the kids home from school).

To my ears this sounds like something bad has happened at the school and that's why you need to bring your kids home. :D I don't know if that's just me and my connotations though. The more I think about it, the more confused I get.

I haven't studied Estonian long enough to say anything for sure about lapsi/lapsed, but if it's anything like in Finnish I'd say:

I think it should be ma pean lapsed koolist koju tooma if you mean that you're going to take them home now. Ma pean lapsi koolist koju tooma sounds like you have many kids and their school day ends at different hours, so that you need to go to the school again and again and again. Or maybe that you're taking someone else's kids to their homes? Like a taxi driver or something? :D

Of course you could use partitive with koolist koju tooma, but then I'd use some other verb than pidama: ma olen lapsi koolist koju toomas* (I'm right now in the car with the kids, coming home), ma hakkasin lapsi koolist koju tooma** (I've started to take them home, someone else did it before) ma sõitsin oma lapsi koolist koju tooma (I went to take the kids home) and so on. Also btw, these don't sound odd to me at all. I don't know what it is with that pean koju tooma that makes me think "what happened??". :lol:

* I think this is possible in Estonian, too, but I can't check it with Google because it just gives me results with "Toomas". Thanks, Google.
** And this one just gave me results with the Finnish verb hakata, to beat something / to beat someone up. Just what I wanted to have in my search history!

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-09-21, 10:39

What's the difference between mäletama,meeles pidama,meenutama,mitte unustama?.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-09-21, 14:57

Naava wrote:To my ears this sounds like something bad has happened at the school and that's why you need to bring your kids home. :D I don't know if that's just me and my connotations though. The more I think about it, the more confused I get.

I haven't studied Estonian long enough to say anything for sure about lapsi/lapsed, but if it's anything like in Finnish I'd say:

I think it should be ma pean lapsed koolist koju tooma if you mean that you're going to take them home now. Ma pean lapsi koolist koju tooma sounds like you have many kids and their school day ends at different hours, so that you need to go to the school again and again and again. Or maybe that you're taking someone else's kids to their homes? Like a taxi driver or something? :D

Of course you could use partitive with koolist koju tooma, but then I'd use some other verb than pidama: ma olen lapsi koolist koju toomas* (I'm right now in the car with the kids, coming home), ma hakkasin lapsi koolist koju tooma** (I've started to take them home, someone else did it before) ma sõitsin oma lapsi koolist koju tooma (I went to take the kids home) and so on. Also btw, these don't sound odd to me at all.

All that makes sense. Thanks!

Naava wrote:I don't know what it is with that pean koju tooma that makes me think "what happened??". :lol:

Maybe because it's something you are saying you have to do it, so you are wondering "why does that have to be done? Has something happened?" Your other examples don't say you have to do it. And our other sentences that say you have to mostly use käima, which is used for repetitive actions, so instead of sounding like "something has happened and I must go get them!", with käima it sounds more like something you do all the time.

Naava wrote:* I think this is possible in Estonian, too, but I can't check it with Google because it just gives me results with "Toomas". Thanks, Google.
** And this one just gave me results with the Finnish verb hakata, to beat something / to beat someone up. Just what I wanted to have in my search history!

LOL! What on earth have you been doing to the poor children? And who is this Toomas guy who is picking your kids up from school?

kloie wrote:What's the difference between mäletama,meeles pidama,meenutama,mitte unustama?.

Quite similar to the differences between these English translations:

mäletama = to remember, to preserve in memory
meeles pidama = to remember, to keep in mind, to keep in your thoughts
mitte unustama = to remember, to not forget
meenutama = to bring to mind, to remind you of something, to think back on, look back on

So mäletama, meeles pidama and mitte unustama can be used as synonyms in some situations, but have slightly different shades of meaning, just as the meanings other than "to remember" do in English.

Meenutama to me seems to be more different from the others. It seems more focused on the past (dealing with things you already have in your memory) while the other three can be future-oriented. In other words, in addition to talking about your memories of the past, you can use mäletama, meeles pidama and mitte unustama when talking about things that happen today, that you want to remember for the future; I think you wouldn't normally use meenutama that way.*

* Maybe you would use meenutama to talk about the future in the sense of "now every time I see him, it's going to make me think of what you just said about him" or something like that... but meenutama is about something triggering a memory that already exists (whether the "trigger" is something involuntary or your actively trying to think back on the past), not about the act of committing it to memory or keeping it there.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby ainurakne » 2019-09-21, 22:11

Naava wrote:I think it should be ma pean lapsed koolist koju tooma if you mean that you're going to take them home now.
Yes, I would also use ma pean lapsed koju tooma. It's a definitive action with the focus on the end result - getting the children home.
Ma pean lapsi koju tooma is more ambiguous. You could be talking about an indefinite amount of children or an unbounded action. I would probably translate it to something like "I have some bringing-the-kids-home to do" or "I have some bringing-the-kids-home to be done".

But you could indeed use it when there's no need to be precise, when the details don't matter and you just state that you have something to do (e.g. ma ei saa sinuga kohtuda, ma pean lapsi koju tooma).
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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-09-22, 22:22

ainurakne wrote:
Naava wrote:I think it should be ma pean lapsed koolist koju tooma if you mean that you're going to take them home now.
Yes, I would also use ma pean lapsed koju tooma. It's a definitive action with the focus on the end result - getting the children home.
Ma pean lapsi koju tooma is more ambiguous. You could be talking about an indefinite amount of children or an unbounded action. I would probably translate it to something like "I have some bringing-the-kids-home to do" or "I have some bringing-the-kids-home to be done".

But you could indeed use it when there's no need to be precise, when the details don't matter and you just state that you have something to do (e.g. ma ei saa sinuga kohtuda, ma pean lapsi koju tooma).

Aitäh! Mida arvad sellest lausest? Ma pean lastele kooli järele minema.

I'm trying to figure out all these sentences because "pick up" has so many different uses in English, it renders dictionaries nearly useless. And I had to laugh because I kept thinking this question about picking kids up seemed so familiar, as did my first answer earlier this week, but I finally figured out why - this is from last January:
Linguaphile wrote:
kloie wrote:How do i say i have to take the kids to school/ drop the kids off at school?

Ma pean lapsed kooli viima, although there may be a more colloquial way to say it :?:

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-09-22, 23:46

Thanks! I don't mean to repeat questions,so please forgive me.
How do i say I'm going to sleep now?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-09-22, 23:59

kloie wrote:Thanks! I don't mean to repeat questions,so please forgive me.

You weren't - the earlier question about about taking kids to school and this week you were asking about picking them up. :mrgreen: They aren't the same thing. It's just that this week's question seemed so familiar because they are similar questions, and also that because I was similarly uncertain about both of them. I kept thinking "I'm sure I've been asked this before, and I wasn't sure about it last time either!" And I thought it was funny that after I found the earlier question again, I saw that I had answered with the same question mark next to my answer back then too. For some reason they aren't phrases I've encountered elsewhere so I wasn't sure about them. But they actually are two different questions.

kloie wrote:How do i say I'm going to sleep now?

Ma lähen nüüd magama.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby ainurakne » 2019-09-23, 16:42

Linguaphile wrote:Aitäh! Mida arvad sellest lausest? Ma pean lastele kooli järele minema.
Tundub ok.

Linguaphile wrote:I'm trying to figure out all these sentences because "pick up" has so many different uses in English, it renders dictionaries nearly useless.
Speaking of picking up the kids... Ma pean lapsed koolist peale korjama.
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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-02, 0:00

Is this how you say who's been using my toothbrush=kes on mu hambaharja kasutanud?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-02, 0:45

kloie wrote:Is this how you say who's been using my toothbrush=kes on mu hambaharja kasutanud?


Jah, ma arvan, et su lause on hästi kirjutanud.
Yes, I think that your sentence is well-written.

Mu arvates võid kirjutada ka:
I think you could also write:

Kes kasutas mu hambaharja? = who used my toothbrush?
Kes on mu hambaharjaga oma hambaid pesnud? = who has brushed his/her teeth with my toothbrush?
Kes pesi mu hambaharjaga oma hambaid? = who brushed his/her teeth with my toothbrush?

See polnud mina! = It wasn't me! :mrgreen:

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-02, 6:50

Is this how you say Do you use milk or sugar=kas te kasutate piima või suhkrut?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-02, 7:08

Which hand do you use when you write=millist kätt te kirjutades kasutate? Is this correct.?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-02, 13:40

kloie wrote:Is this how you say Do you use milk or sugar=kas te kasutate piima või suhkrut?


kloie wrote:Which hand do you use when you write=millist kätt te kirjutades kasutate? Is this correct.?


I think they are both okay. For the second one, to me millist kätt te kirjutamiseks kasutate? would sound more natural ("which hand do you use for writing?"), but I'm not a native speaker. Your sentence is understandable and seems grammatically correct though. Ainurakne, what do you think?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Naava » 2019-10-02, 13:49

Linguaphile wrote:
kloie wrote:Is this how you say Do you use milk or sugar=kas te kasutate piima või suhkrut?


kloie wrote:Which hand do you use when you write=millist kätt te kirjutades kasutate? Is this correct.?


I think they are both okay. For the second one, to me millist kätt te kirjutamiseks kasutate? would sound more natural ("which hand do you use for writing?"), but I'm not a native speaker. Your sentence is understandable and seems grammatically correct though. Ainurakne, what do you think?

I'm not Ainurakne, but I would say kumba kätt te kasutate or kumma käega te kirjutate or kumma käeline te olete.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-02, 15:30

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:
kloie wrote:Is this how you say Do you use milk or sugar=kas te kasutate piima või suhkrut?


kloie wrote:Which hand do you use when you write=millist kätt te kirjutades kasutate? Is this correct.?


I think they are both okay. For the second one, to me millist kätt te kirjutamiseks kasutate? would sound more natural ("which hand do you use for writing?"), but I'm not a native speaker. Your sentence is understandable and seems grammatically correct though. Ainurakne, what do you think?

I'm not Ainurakne, but I would say kumba kätt te kasutate or kumma käega te kirjutate or kumma käeline te olete.

Yes, I agree with you! Those do sound okay to me as well!

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-02, 20:29

Is this correct for how much alcohol do you consume=kui palju alkoholi sa kuus tarbid.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-02, 22:26

kloie wrote:Is this correct for how much alcohol do you consume=kui palju alkoholi sa kuus tarbid.

Yes - for "how much alcohol do you consume in a month."

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-03, 1:01

What's the difference minema kinno, käima kinos?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-03, 1:24

kloie wrote:What's the difference minema kinno, käima kinos?

Both are "to go to the cinema", but käima + inessive is generally used for repeated actions (such as places you go to habitually or regularly, places you "tend" to go) while minema + illative can be a single instance of going someplace.

"What are you doing tonight?" :arrow: Lähen kinno. I'm going to the movies.
"What do you usually do on Friday nights?" :arrow: Käin kinos. I go to the movies.

"What should we do on Saturday?" :arrow: Lähme kinno! Let's go to the movies (referring only to this one time).
"What should we do this summer?" :arrow: Käime kinos! Let's go to the movies (regularly).

With a word like "harva" or a negative verb, käima + inessive is also the verb you use to say that you don't do something regularly: Käin kinos harva. I rarely go to the movies.


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