Kloie's thread for questions

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kloie
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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-11, 20:31

Ok another sentence.
Ta Lubas külla (tulema,tulla). Shouldn't it be tulla because lubama-to allow takes the (DA) verb?
And what does it mean?

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Re: aitama

Postby ainurakne » 2017-09-11, 20:36

Naava wrote:Are there any funny pairs of words in Estonian where the meaning of a sentence would change if the ä and ö/õ were replaced by a and o? I'm thinking of such words as the näin (I saw) vs nain (I married / I slept with) in Finnish.
:hmm:
läksin (I went) vs laksin (I'm slapping, I'm hitting);
särk (shirt) vs sark (coffin for dead people) - although puusärk (wooden shirt) is also often used to refer to a coffin;
köök (kitchen, cuisine) vs kook (cake);
õlu (beer) vs olu (circumstance, condition);
süü (fault, guilt) vs suu (mouth);
etc...
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Re: aitama

Postby ainurakne » 2017-09-11, 20:50

Ta lubas külla tulla.
(S)he promised to (come) visit.

Although küla is village, it also sometimes refers to someone else's place, or a place that is not your own.
Compounds like "külla minema", "külla tulema", "külas käima" and so on, also mean 'to visit' (in addition to 'to go to village', 'to come to village', etc).
Also the verb külastama (to visit) is derived from these.
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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-11, 21:04

ainurakne wrote:
Naava wrote:Are there any funny pairs of words in Estonian where the meaning of a sentence would change if the ä and ö/õ were replaced by a and o? I'm thinking of such words as the näin (I saw) vs nain (I married / I slept with) in Finnish.
:hmm:
läksin (I went) vs laksin (I'm slapping, I'm hitting);
särk (shirt) vs sark (coffin for dead people) - although puusärk (wooden shirt) is also often used to refer to a coffin;
köök (kitchen, cuisine) vs kook (cake);
õlu (beer) vs olu (circumstance, condition);
süü (fault, guilt) vs suu (mouth);
etc...


And the title of the song: Mu isamaa, mu õnn ja rõõm.
Of course in other languages it gets written as Mu isamaa, mu onn ja room.
I've heard it translated (jokingly) as "my fatherland, my small hut and crawl." Not exactly, but not so far off either:
õnn = happiness; onn = cabin, small building or hut
rõõm = joy; room = roomamine = crawling

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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-12, 1:38

What is pilli mangida?/pritt oskab pilli mangida.
Lounat tegema?/hakkame lounat tegema.
Me tahame viimasele rongile jouda.
And sorry for not using the correct characters. I shall do better next time!

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-12, 3:02

Linguaphile wrote:LOL. I remember some Estonian tv show, probably an episode of ENSV, where Paavo or whoever it was received a telegram in Estonian. It was written with oe ae ue and so on, and he read it aloud phonetically. It had a lot of those letters and the way he read it aloud was total gibberish, but the linguist in me thought it was hilarious! Wish I could find it and post the clip here.


Ma leidsin selle! (I tried to make the link start at 8:00, but if it doesn't, skip to that part, where Ats reads the telegram. Then Paavo speaks the same way, just to be funny, at 9:10.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43V5Y_LPgyY&feature=youtu.be&t=8m0s
The text of the telegram, as written on the screen and stumbled through by Ats, is:
Haeid maipuehi. Huehueumaerk. Tallin ei voeta vastu. Punkt. Maandusime Riias. Punkt. Taena oeoesel ei saabu. Punkt. Ostsin Pillele ja Paavole uued padjapueuerid. Sirje. Punkt. Punkt.
So this of course is the text of the telegram, minus õ ä ö ü, with the punctuation written out as words. Sirje is explaining that they were unable to return to Tallinn and landed in Riga instead. She won't arrive tonight. She bought new pillows for Paavo and Pille.
Correct Estonian: Häid maipühi! Tallinn ei võta vastu. Maandusime Riias. Täna öösel ei saabu. Ostsin Pillele ja Paavole uued padjapüürid. Sirje.
What I thought was especially funny (besides huehueiu...huehue...huehueiumaerk and taena oeoeseli...oeoesel ei...) was the fact that after struggling to read the telegram, the only comment Ats made about the spelling was "Tallin ühe n-iga!"
:hmm:

Edit: Youtube link disappeared. Here's the link from ERR Arhiiv:
https://arhiiv.err.ee/vaata/ensv-elagu-1-mai @ 8:00 and 9:10.
Last edited by Linguaphile on 2017-09-24, 15:56, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-12, 3:29

kloie wrote:What is pilli mangida?/pritt oskab pilli mangida.
Lounat tegema?/hakkame lounat tegema.
Me tahame viimasele rongile jouda.
And sorry for not using the correct characters. I shall do better next time!

Priit oskab pilli mängida. = Priit knows how to play a musical instrument. (pill = musical instrument; various types of instruments: keelpill = string instrument; puupuhkpill = windwood instrument; lõõtspill = accordion; torupill = bagpipe, etc.)

Hakkame lõunat tegema. = We're going to make lunch. / We're beginning to make lunch. / Let's make lunch!
Maybe Ainurakne can clarify whether all three of my translations are okay for this one. I'm not sure if there is a way to tell which one is meant here.

Me tahame viimasele rongile jõuda. = We want to catch the last train.

About the characters, it's okay. As you can see, we can figure out what it says without them if it's hard for you to post them here. I just wanted to make sure that you are paying attention to them as you're studying Estonian. They are an important part of the spelling and pronunciation. If you ignore them now in your learning, or if you are studying from a site that doesn't use them, you'll have to do a lot of re-learning later!

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Re: aitama

Postby ainurakne » 2017-09-12, 6:07

Linguaphile wrote:Ma leidsin selle! (I tried to make the link start at 8:00, but if it doesn't, skip to that part, where Ats reads the telegram. Then Paavo speaks the same way, just to be funny, at 9:10.)
:lol:

Linguaphile wrote:Maybe Ainurakne can clarify whether all three of my translations are okay for this one. I'm not sure if there is a way to tell which one is meant here.
In case of the third translation, the sentence in Estonian should also end with an exclamation mark. But if the punctuation of the original source is not known or if the punctuation is omitted, then there's no way to tell the exact translation to English without knowing the context and/or intonation.
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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-12, 11:56

Could you all give me some websites,that will show me how to decline the nouns ,and other things that must be changed?

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Re: aitama

Postby Salajane » 2017-09-12, 14:41

kloie wrote:Could you all give me some websites,that will show me how to decline the nouns ,and other things that must be changed?

In this dictionary you can find declination or conjugation of many words: http://www.eki.ee/dict/psv/index.cgi
Здайся на Господа у твоїх справах, і задуми твої здійсняться. (Приповідки 16, 3)
TAC 2018

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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-12, 20:22

Ok I managed to do all of these sentences with the help of the internet,but there was one sentence that I don't know.
Verb:pesema-to wash/in the past tense
Ta pesi ennast hommikuti kulma veega.

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-12, 20:41

kloie wrote:Ok I managed to do all of these sentences with the help of the internet,but there was one sentence that I don't know.
Verb:pesema-to wash/in the past tense
Ta pesi ennast hommikuti kulma veega.

Ta pesi ennast hommikuti külma veega. He washed himself with cold water in the mornings. / She washed herself with cold water in the mornings.
pesi - third person past tense of pesema
ennast - one's self (himself, herself, yourself, myself, etc)
hommikuti - in the mornings (every morning)
veega - with water (vee - genitive case of vesi; veega - comitative case of vesi)

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-12, 20:52

ainurakne wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Ma leidsin selle! (I tried to make the link start at 8:00, but if it doesn't, skip to that part, where Ats reads the telegram. Then Paavo speaks the same way, just to be funny, at 9:10.)
:lol:

Linguaphile wrote:Maybe Ainurakne can clarify whether all three of my translations are okay for this one. I'm not sure if there is a way to tell which one is meant here.
In case of the third translation, the sentence in Estonian should also end with an exclamation mark. But if the punctuation of the original source is not known or if the punctuation is omitted, then there's no way to tell the exact translation to English without knowing the context and/or intonation.

:idea: That explanation made me realize why imperative/ käskiv kõneviis requires an exclamation mark in Estonian whereas the exclamation mark is optional in English. :yep: Well, it doesn't really explain why it is optional in English. :twisted: But it helps explain why it's required in Estonian!

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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-12, 22:04

Ta raakis nonda, et jain uskuma.
Ta jai hetkeks mottesse.
Ma jain hatta keemiaulesannetega.
Lopuks jai ta vaidluses alla.
Me Jaime kahtlema, kas teda uskuda voi mitte?
Kahjuks jaid nad hiljaks.
Ma jain roomust keeletuks.
Nad jaid vihma katte.
Kas sa jaid bussist maha?
Ma jain vastusega hiljaks.
I'm very confused about these sentences.

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Re: aitama

Postby Linguaphile » 2017-09-13, 0:14

kloie wrote:Ta raakis nonda, et jain uskuma.
Ta jai hetkeks mottesse.
Ma jain hatta keemiaulesannetega.
Lopuks jai ta vaidluses alla.
Me Jaime kahtlema, kas teda uskuda voi mitte?
Kahjuks jaid nad hiljaks.
Ma jain roomust keeletuks.
Nad jaid vihma katte.
Kas sa jaid bussist maha?
Ma jain vastusega hiljaks.
I'm very confused about these sentences.

These are all phrases using jääma (to stay, to remain). Some are fairly idiomatic, so they can't really be translated literally. I'll do my best below. (I'm in a bit of a hurry so ainurakne or others, please forgive/correct any mistakes!) :wink:

Ta rääkis nõnda, et jäin uskuma. = He spoke in such a way that I believed him.
Ta jäi hetkeks mõttesse. = He stopped to think for a moment. / He stopped for a moment in thought.
Ma jäin hätta keemiaülesannetega. = I had trouble with the chemistry assignments/tasks.
Lõpuks jäi ta vaidluses alla. = In the end he lost the argument.
Me jäime kahtlema, kas teda uskuda või mitte? = We were left in doubt of whether to believe him or not.
Kahjuks jäid nad hiljaks. = Unfortunately they were late.
Ma jäin rõõmust keeletuks. = I was left speechless with joy. / I was left speechless from happiness.
Nad jäid vihma kätte. = They stayed out in the rain.
Kas sa jäid bussist maha? = Did you miss the bus?
Ma jäin vastusega hiljaks. = I was late with my response/answer.

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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-14, 14:18

Are sõitma and juhtima synonyms? And what about ajama?

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Re: aitama

Postby ainurakne » 2017-09-14, 14:49

Sõitma is to ride in general. You can ride all kinds of vehicles (and some animals) without necessarily being the driver.


Juhtima is to drive, to lead. So, besides driving vehicles (leading them into the direction you want), you can also lead people, processes and whatever.


Ajama is an old word and isn't generally used that much anymore, except in many specific phrases. It is similar to juhtima: "Ajan auto garaaži." (I (will) drive the car into the garage), "Ajan auto garaažist välja." (I (will) drive the car out of the garage), etc...
Also for animals: "Ajan lehmad lauta." (I (will) drive/lead the cows into the barn; I (will) make the cows go into the barn)

But also to make something go the way you want/wish: "Ajasin ta minema." (I made him/her go away; I drove him/her away), "Ajasin ta hulluks." (I made him/her go crazy; I drove him/her crazy), "Ajasin kruusi ümber." (I made the cup fall over), "Ajasin vee keema." (I made the water to become boiling), etc...

But also things like "Ajasin habeme ära." (I shaved my beard) ~ I drove my beard away :mrgreen:
(and "Ajan habet." - I am shaving my beard)


But ajama is never used for driving or riding in general, at least I have never heard that in Estonian.
So, don't say "Ajan autot." when just driving a/the car!
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Re: aitama

Postby kloie » 2017-09-18, 13:22

I'm having trouble with these sentences:
Silla alla ei tohi minna.
Raamat on riiuli peal.
Mere kohale kogunesid pilved.
Markmil on raamatu all.
Kabinet on saali korval.
Kaev on maja juures.
Meie oleme lembitu juures kulas.

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Re: aitama

Postby ainurakne » 2017-09-18, 14:32

Silla alla ei tohi minna.
It is not allowed / is forbidden to go under the bridge.
lit: bridge's to under, one must not (is forbidden) to go

Raamat on riiuli peal.
A/the book is on a/the shelf.

Mere kohale kogunesid pilved.
Clouds formed above the sea.

Märkmik on raamatu all.
A/the notebook is under a/the book.

Kabinet on saali kõrval.
A/the study is beside a/the hall.

Kaev on maja juures.
A/the well is near a/the house.

Meie oleme Lembitu juures külas.
We are at Lembit's place visiting him. (or since the long "meie" is used, more like: It is us that are at Lembit's place visiting him.)


kõrval - beside; but literally means on/at one's ear
juures - near; but literally means inside one's root

A little more about such expression from this booklet, page 9 (Language and a lingering mentality).
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Re: aitama

Postby Naava » 2017-09-18, 15:33

I started to read that booklet ainurakne linked and I saw this:
Hence the contemporary Estonian käskima ‘to order’, can be translated ‘to give
orders with one’s hand’

Is it true? I can see the käs- part looks like käsi, but where did the -ki- then come from? :|

(Also, how is this word conjugated? Ma käskin? What's the imperative? Käskisin? What?? :lol: )


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