Kloie's thread for questions

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kloie
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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-03, 21:46

The changing of seasons mark the passing of time=aastaaegade vaheldumine tähistab aja möödumist. Is this correct?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-04, 0:25

kloie wrote:The changing of seasons mark the passing of time=aastaaegade vaheldumine tähistab aja möödumist. Is this correct?

It sounds okay to me.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby ainurakne » 2019-10-04, 15:47

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:I think they are both okay. For the second one, to me millist kätt te kirjutamiseks kasutate? would sound more natural ("which hand do you use for writing?"), but I'm not a native speaker. Your sentence is understandable and seems grammatically correct though. Ainurakne, what do you think?

I'm not Ainurakne, but I would say kumba kätt te kasutate or kumma käega te kirjutate or kumma käeline te olete.
Yes, if you have exactly two options, then the question word kumb? should be used.

Millist kätt te kasutate? isn't wrong , but it often feels as if there are more than two options or if it's an open question - you can propose an answer that the question asker didn't think of. :mrgreen:

Linguaphile wrote:Both are "to go to the cinema", but käima + inessive is generally used for repeated actions (such as places you go to habitually or regularly, places you "tend" to go) while minema + illative can be a single instance of going someplace.
käima + inessive is also used for a single action when the action can be considered as finished after you are back to where you started from or when you just have left the place that you visited. Maybe a bit similar to the verb to visit:
  • Lähen käin poes ära. - I will go to the store (, buy there what's needed) and then come back
  • Käisin poes - I visited the store and now I'm back / ... and by now I have left the store
  • Kas sa oled kunagi Eestis käinud? - Have you ever been to Estonia? / Have you ever visited Estonia?

In case of minema + illative, the focus is on reaching (or moving towards) the destination, anything else is out of scope.
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-04, 16:10

ainurakne wrote:
Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:I think they are both okay. For the second one, to me millist kätt te kirjutamiseks kasutate? would sound more natural ("which hand do you use for writing?"), but I'm not a native speaker. Your sentence is understandable and seems grammatically correct though. Ainurakne, what do you think?

I'm not Ainurakne, but I would say kumba kätt te kasutate or kumma käega te kirjutate or kumma käeline te olete.
Yes, if you have exactly two options, then the question word kumb? should be used.

Millist kätt te kasutate? isn't wrong , but it often feels as if there are more than two options or if it's an open question - you can propose an answer that the question asker didn't think of. :mrgreen:

Thanks!

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-04, 17:33

I'm reading a book about lions=Ma loen raamatut lõvide kohta.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-04, 21:00

I took my kids out for two hours=Viisin oma lapsed kaheks tunniks välja.? Is it correct?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-04, 23:35

What is paberitüki?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-05, 0:25

I don't get this sentence ema võttis näppu ja läks köögi poole.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-05, 0:54

kloie wrote:Ma loen raamatut lõvide kohta.

kloie wrote:Viisin oma lapsed kaheks tunniks välja.

Both sound okay to me.*
Also possible: Ma loen [ühte] raamatut lõvidest or Ma loen [ühte] lõvidest raamatut.

*But I googled the string "loen raamatut * kohta" to check, expecting it to confirm that this construction is used, and this phrase gets only three hits. "Loen raamatut" gets twelve thousand hits and "raamatut * kohta" gets more than a million (not all of them are relevant, but many are), and yet together the phrase "loen raamatut * kohta" gets only three. Why? Is this not correct or is Google just messing with me?

kloie wrote:What is paberitüki?

Paberitüki is the genitive form of paberitükk.
Paberitükk = a piece of a paper

kloie wrote:I don't get this sentence ema võttis näppu ja läks köögi poole.

I don't either get that sentence either; it's missing something. I know you sometimes find your sentences in the EKSS dictionary and a search turned up this:
Ema võttis lüpsiku kätte, näppu ja läks köögi poole.

It is saying that you can say either Ema võttis lüpsiku kätte ja läks köögi poole or Ema võttis lüpsiku näppu ja läks köögi poole, where the sentence can have either the word kätte or näppu. Both mean "Mother picked up (or grabbed) the milk pail and went towards the kitchen."
Näppu võtma ("to take into one's fingers") or kätte võtma ("to take into one's hand") are two different ways of saying "to pick up" or "to grab" something. But it requires an object, like lüpsiku (milk pail); you can't say "ema võttis näppu" without saying what she picked up.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Naava » 2019-10-05, 6:10

Linguaphile wrote:*But I googled the string "loen raamatut * kohta" to check, expecting it to confirm that this construction is used, and this phrase gets only three hits. "Loen raamatut" gets twelve thousand hits and "raamatut * kohta" gets more than a million (not all of them are relevant, but many are), and yet together the phrase "loen raamatut * kohta" gets only three. Why? Is this not correct or is Google just messing with me?

Looks like you used the wrong tense. "Lugesin raamatut * kohta" gets 109 000 hits; I suppose people like to speak about books they've already finished rather than books they're still reading. :)

I don't know what the difference between raamatut lõvide kohta and raamatut lõvidest is, though. Finnish doesn't help me this time because it only has the latter one. :D There's also the phrase leijonista kertova kirja, 'a book that tells about lions', but I don't know if you can say lõvidest kõnelev raamat in Estonian.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-05, 14:57

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:*But I googled the string "loen raamatut * kohta" to check, expecting it to confirm that this construction is used, and this phrase gets only three hits. "Loen raamatut" gets twelve thousand hits and "raamatut * kohta" gets more than a million (not all of them are relevant, but many are), and yet together the phrase "loen raamatut * kohta" gets only three. Why? Is this not correct or is Google just messing with me?

Looks like you used the wrong tense. "Lugesin raamatut * kohta" gets 109 000 hits; I suppose people like to speak about books they've already finished rather than books they're still reading. :)

Okay, but why so few for present tense? It makes me think there is something wrong with saying it, instead of just "people don't like to speak about books they're still reading."

Naava wrote:I don't know what the difference between raamatut lõvide kohta and raamatut lõvidest is, though. Finnish doesn't help me this time because it only has the latter one. :D There's also the phrase leijonista kertova kirja, 'a book that tells about lions', but I don't know if you can say lõvidest kõnelev raamat in Estonian.

Yes, you can say lõvidest kõnelev raamat, and also lõvidest jutustav raamat *. And also lõvidest rääkiv raamat. However, I think I've seen rääkiv raamat also used for audiobooks ("talking books") - I wonder if the usage of this type of construction is changing due to the existence now of books that actually do speak? :hmm:
But the more common way of saying "talking book" is audioraamat or heliraamat, so maybe it's not an issue. (It's possible the usage of rääkiv raamat that I've seen with that meaning were just poorly-translated calques of the English phrase talking book . I'm really not sure. For example, here it is used to describe a book that speaks in English, so it's very likely they were translating from English when they wrote the description. Also, I'm not sure I've seen rääkiv raamat for real audiobooks, just for this type of children's book that speaks.)

As for a difference between raamat lõvide kohta and raamat lõvidest, I think they have the same meaning. Raamat lõvidest (or lõvidest raamat) sounds somewhat better to me than raamat lõvide kohta, but that may be just my own preference. :?: I can't really put my finger on why it sounds better and I'm pretty confident that they are both correct.

*(Since the original question started out with a partitive construction: partitive forms are lõvidest kõnelevat raamatut and lõvidest jutustavat raamatut).

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-06, 10:08

Oskama,saama,võima,suutma,jõuduma,tohtima what's the difference between these verbs?

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-06, 18:58

kloie wrote:Oskama,saama,võima,suutma,jõuduma,tohtima what's the difference between these verbs?


So basically, as you've discovered, they can all be translated as "to be able to" do something. There is a bit of overlap (meaning you can often choose between two or three of these words in any given situation), but they are not all the same.
Basically the difference has to do with why you are able to do something.

So, for example, oskama has to do with knowledge: you are able to do something because you know how to do it. Jõudma has to do with strength or power: you are able to do something because you have the power to do it. Jaksama has to do with having the strength or vigor: you able able to do something because you are strong or healthy enough to do it. Tohtima has to do with someone else giving you permission: you are able to do something because you have been allowed to do it.

The word võima tends to be the most general in my opinion, and then saama; when you aren't sure which one to use, these are usually a good choice unless the meaning has to do with knowledge (then use oskama) or permission (then use tohtima).

To distinguish between them, it can also help to associate the words with a word that is related to them etymologically, so I've listed definitions here along with a related word for each one.

oskama = to know how to do; to be capable of doing (related to oskus 'skill, proficiency')

saama = to manage to do; can (related to saabuma 'to arrive, to get in' and of course the other meaning of saama itself, which is 'to get')

võima = to be capable of doing; can (related to võim 'power, force, strength')

jõudma = to have the power or capacity to do; to have the power of; to be able to do under your own power (related to jõud 'power, strength', and of course the other meaning of jõudma itself, which is 'to reach, arrive')

jaksama = to have the strength to do; to be strong enough to do (related to jaks 'strength, vigor')

suutma = to be in a position to do; to manage to do, often because of the physical characteristics or tools available to you (related to suutvus 'capability, capacity for')

tohtima = to be allowed to do; to be permitted to do; may (interestingly, etymologically it is related to a word meaning 'to dare to do' in some languages related to Estonian; it has to do with what other people think of your doing something, and following their rules about it)

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-25, 2:33

There is some bread in the freezer=sügavkülmas on leiba, is this correct.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-25, 3:19

kloie wrote:sügavkülmas on leiba

Yes.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-25, 8:17

I'm not sure how to say these:
People came to the market.
Some water leaked into the cellar.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-25, 18:33

kloie wrote:I'm not sure how to say these:
People came to the market.
Some water leaked into the cellar.

Inimesed tulid turule.
Vett lekkis keldrisse.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby kloie » 2019-10-27, 17:45

How do i say many people were at the party and i have many good friends.

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Re: Kloie's thread for questions

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-10-27, 17:57

kloie wrote:How do i say many people were at the party and i have many good friends.

Palju inimesi oli peol.
Mul on palju häid sõpru.


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