Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

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Prantsis
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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2017-12-03, 22:09

(et) kalju rock, cliff
(fr) caillou (pronounced /kaju/) pebble, stone

kalju <- Proto-Germanic *hallijǭ, *halljō- "rock" [wiktionary]
caillou <- Gaulish *caljo- "stone" [cnrtl.fr]

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Naava
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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Naava » 2017-12-03, 22:17

Prantsis wrote:(et) kalju rock, cliff
(fr) caillou (pronounced /kaju/) pebble, stone

(fi) kalju bald :lol:

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2017-12-03, 22:38

Naava wrote:(fi) kalju bald :lol:

Actually, the French caillou can also refer to a bald head in the expression "ne pas avoir un poil sur le caillou", lit. "not to have one hair on the caillou".

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby ainurakne » 2017-12-04, 8:25

As Estonian kalju is related to Finnish kallio, I was wondering where does Finnish kalju originate from. And in Wiktionary it says:
A derivative from a root √kalja- (compare kaljama), of either Germanic (compare Old High German hāli (“smooth, slippery”)) or Baltic origin (compare Lithuanian gàle (“thin layer of ice”)). An identical derivative in Karelian has the meaning "skull".
Huh, looking at the last sentence, the first thing that popped into my mind was Estonian kolju (skull). :para:

Although, the meaning skull seems to be quite a new thing for the word kolju in Estonian (originally saani või sadula etteulatuv osa).
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Naava
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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Naava » 2017-12-04, 18:32

Skull is kallo in Finnish - seems like we'll continue with the K-L-(I/J)-words. :D

ainurakne wrote:Huh, looking at the last sentence, the first thing that popped into my mind was Estonian kolju (skull).

Well, kalja means beer so I had quite different images in my mind... That fits in the K-L-J-word group too lol.

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2018-03-25, 23:37

(et) -ard
(fr) -ard

In French, the suffix -ard is very productive and appears in nouns and adjectives that are often pejorative, like couard "coward". To a minor extent, English also uses it: drunkard. Apparently it comes from the german adjective hart, which was used as an intensifier in proper names (-> Bernard, Richard...)

In Estonian, I've just run across the word sõjard. It made me curious and I looked for other words ending with -ard. So far I've found jõhkard, juhmard, käpard, logard, lupard, kohmard, õgard, ebard: not exactly positive words either.

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-03-25, 23:59

Prantsis wrote:(et) -ard
(fr) -ard

In French, the suffix -ard is very productive and appears in nouns and adjectives that are often pejorative, like couard "coward". To a minor extent, English also uses it: drunkard. Apparently it comes from the german adjective hart, which was used as an intensifier in proper names (-> Bernard, Richard...)

In Estonian, I've just run across the word sõjard. It made me curious and I looked for other words ending with -ard. So far I've found jõhkard, juhmard, käpard, logard, lupard, kohmard, õgard, ebard: not exactly positive words either.

koobard, lõhvard, jahvard, lakard, tuimard...

Eesti keele käsiraamat seletab:
-(a)rd tuletab verbidest ja käändsõnadest halvustavaid isikunimetusi, nt õgima > õga/rd, jahvard, lakard, logard, kohmard, käpard; jõhker > jõhka/rd, ebard, tuimard, juhmard, lohmard, sõjard.

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2018-03-26, 22:22

+ uimard, pussard

Linguaphile wrote:Eesti keele käsiraamat seletab:

Aitäh, ma ei tulnud selle pealegi, et pilk sinna saidile heita.

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2018-04-09, 15:37

...and afer one year and a half I realized that EKSS allowed a few regular expressions:
http://eki.ee/dict/ekss/index.cgi?Q=*ard&F=M

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-04-10, 4:20

Prantsis wrote:...and afer one year and a half I realized that EKSS allowed a few regular expressions:
http://eki.ee/dict/ekss/index.cgi?Q=*ard&F=M

I didn't know you could do that either. That's useful. Thanks!

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2018-04-10, 19:31

Linguaphile wrote:I didn't know you could do that either. That's useful. Thanks!

You can also do this (they explain it when you click the tool icon):
http://eki.ee/dict/ekss/index.cgi?Q=ka%3Fp&F=M

And they don't tell, but this works too:
http://eki.ee/dict/ekss/index.cgi?Q=ka%5Bmu%5Dp&F=M

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-04-10, 23:32

Prantsis wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:I didn't know you could do that either. That's useful. Thanks!

You can also do this (they explain it when you click the tool icon):
http://eki.ee/dict/ekss/index.cgi?Q=ka%3Fp&F=M

And they don't tell, but this works too:
http://eki.ee/dict/ekss/index.cgi?Q=ka%5Bmu%5Dp&F=M

Aitäh!

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2018-04-11, 20:41

Võta heaks. Ma näen, et sa leidsid kohe rakenduse!

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-04-11, 21:46

Prantsis wrote:Võta heaks. Ma näen, et sa leidsid kohe rakenduse!

Jah, muidugi. :D

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-11-24, 2:56

(et) insult stroke, cerebral hemorrhage
(en) insult insult

Insult is a German loan. But German has its share of false friends in Estonian too:

(et) südamerike heart defect
(de) Südamerika South America

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2018-11-24, 8:00

(et) present tarpaulin
(en) present

There's a book festival in Tallinn whose name is "Head Read". It of course means "The Good Lines".

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Naava » 2018-11-24, 9:07

(et) rätt - a scarf
(fi) rätti - a rag ; a piece of clothing (in spoken Finnish), but it has this "I don't care about fashion or clothes" tone, and it can be almost insulting if you use it for someone else's clothes.

You bet I couldn't stop laughing when I asked my teacher what the scarf I was wearing was called in Estonian and she happily answered "it's a rag!"

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby ükssakslane » 2018-11-24, 18:58

My personal favorite:
(et)libahunt = werewolf
(de) lieber Hund = nice dog. :D

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-12-27, 4:07

This is sort of the opposite of the above examples - a pair of similar words which have the same meaning by pure coincidence (the Spanish word from Latin, the Estonian word from Proto-Finnic).

(et) parv flock, swarm, school (of fish)
(es-MX) parvada flock, herd, school (of fish)

(et) parvedes in the flocks
(es-MX) en las parvadas in the flocks

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Re: Sugulussõnad ja valesõbrad ja "kummalised sõbrad"

Postby Prantsis » 2019-02-27, 19:47

(et) statist extra (in movies)
(en) statist in Estonian: etatist (n.), etatistlik (adj.)


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