Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

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Linguaphile
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-11-22, 18:44

I'm not sure whether to put this one here or on the Sõnad, mida hiljuti õppisid thread.

ekraniseerima to adapt a literary work into a film; to make a movie from a literary work
In Russian it's экранизировать (which I'm sure must the source of the word in Estonian as well, especially given the way it's spelled), but if there is an English word that means exactly the same thing, I don't know what it is. Maybe to dramatize is close enough? (Is ekraniseerima always from a literary work? The EKSS definition indicates that it is: kirjandusteose alusel filmi valmistama. Hakati ekraniseerima L. Tolstoi „Sõda ja rahu”. So what if you are making a movie dramatizing real-life events that haven't been made into a "literary work" - could you also use ekraniseerima then?
Ekraniseering would be a film adaptation or dramatization of a literary work.

Prantsis
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Prantsis » 2018-11-22, 19:33

Linguaphile wrote:but if there is an English word that means exactly the same thing, I don't know what it is. Maybe to dramatize is close enough?

to bring [a work] to the screen?

Linguaphile
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-11-23, 3:24

Prantsis wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:but if there is an English word that means exactly the same thing, I don't know what it is. Maybe to dramatize is close enough?

to bring [a work] to the screen?

You are right, or even more colloquially (and more common) "to bring [a work] to the big screen".
Aitäh!

ükssakslane
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby ükssakslane » 2018-11-26, 21:13

Võbelus või võbelema = approximately "to shiver very gently, hardly noticeably"

Minu teades ei ole selleks inglise tõlge, aga ma võin eksida...
Google arvab, et seda tähendab 'wander' mis on kindlasti vale.

Linguaphile
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-11-27, 1:24

ükssakslane wrote:Võbelus või võbelema = approximately "to shiver very gently, hardly noticeably"

Minu teades ei ole selleks inglise tõlge, aga ma võin eksida...
Google arvab, et seda tähendab 'wander' mis on kindlasti vale.

Yeah, definitely not "wander." Google Translate doesn't really know Estonian, it just thinks it does.* :mrgreen:
I think you're right that võbelus and võbelema don't have exact equivalents in English. One of my dictionaries suggests flicker as a translation, another suggestions quiver and tremble, another shiver, another shimmer. These all seem to be fairly good translations but in English they don't seem to have quite the same connotation and they are also rather different from each other ("flicker" and "shimmer" for light; "quiver" and "shiver" for motion; "quiver" and "shake" for sound/voice) - I don't think English has any word that combines those meanings.

Võbelev leek = a flickering flame
Vana televiisori pilt võbeleb tugevasti. = the old television's picture flickers strongly/severely / the old tv screen really flickers a lot.
Mõõteriistade osutid võbelesid. = the needle on the measuring device shivered / the meter's needle quivered
Puulehed võbelevad vaevumärgatavas tuules. = the leaves quivered in the slightest (lit. barely-noticeable) wind
Hääles võbeles hirm. = his voice quivered/shook with fear (lit. in the voice quivered fear)



*speaking of Google Translate, just for fun I put the sentences above into Google Translate to see what it would come up with, and got this delightful gem (see my own translations above for comparison):
-- Original Estonian: Mõõteriistade osutid võbelesid.
-- Google Translate's translation: Instrument handles for doorbells. :noclue:
Also:
-- Original: Puulehed võbelevad vaevumärgatavas tuules.
-- Google Translate: The boulevards are scratching in a barely noticeable wind. :noclue:
And:
-- Original: Hääles võbeles hirm
-- Google Translate: Waiting for the wings of fear :noclue:
:dunno: :lolhuh:
I mean it does get a word or two right in each phrase, but... that's about it.
:ohwell:
Google Translate is fun!

Linguaphile
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-12-09, 19:30

How about loivama?
to move with the help of flippers; to creep, to crawl, to slog, to plod, to move slowly
I think it's the relation to loib that makes me see this as difficult to translate. Nad loivasid gives me a different sort of image than he crawled or he plodded does, so those translations don't seem quite right.

Prantsis
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Prantsis » 2018-12-14, 1:46

Linguaphile wrote:How about loivama?
to move with the help of flippers; to creep, to crawl, to slog, to plod, to move slowly
I think it's the relation to loib that makes me see this as difficult to translate. Nad loivasid gives me a different sort of image than he crawled or he plodded does, so those translations don't seem quite right.

I would have said to drag oneself (at least, that's what I'd say in French: se traîner), but it doesn't seem very different from the translations you gave.

Linguaphile
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-08-08, 17:51

Does anyone here know if this word has an English translation?

vormikeel (teose vormi puudutavate väljendusvahendite süsteem) (system of expression or system of expressive means, with regards to the form of a work [such as a work of architecture])
German: Formensprache, Formenvokabular
Russian: язык формы
English: language of form :?: , style or aesthetics :?: , stylistic idiom :?:

Translations I found online:

Traditsioonilise vormikeelega, kuid äratuntavalt moodne suvila sobitub hästi ümbritsevasse maastikku. = Despite its use of a traditional language of form, the summer house is recognizably modern and fits well into the surrounding landscape.

Vormikeelelt vastandub vana tehasehoone modernistlikult lahendatud keskkonnale = In terms of language of form, the old factory building contrasts with the modernist design of the old factory building.
(Though perhaps they meant to say something more like "...with the modernist design of its environment" or "with the modernist solutions of its environment"!)

Those two are from the same publication (an architecture magazine). So I guess "vormikeel" is "language of form"? But them there's these:

Üsna meeldiv vormikeel = quite nice shape

Arhitektil oli projekteerides eeskujuks Mies van der Rohe Barcelona paviljoni vormikeel. = The architect had in mind Mies van der Rohe’s Barcelona Pavilion as an inspiration when designing the project.
(it seems the word vormikeel is simply omitted from the translation here as unnecessary, but it seems to me that "the style of Mies van der Rohe’s Barcelona Pavilion" would work better than "language of form of Mies van der Rohe’s Barcelona Pavilion" here, if it were to be included in the translation)

So the (untranslated) sentence in which I've come across this word is the following:
Art deco värvimäng funktsionalismi selge vormikeelega mõjub üllatavalt ja haaravalt.
My attempt:
The art deco play of colors, together with a clear functionalist style, has a surprising and captivating effect. :?:
Grammatically the translation is quite different from the original, but I think a more literal translation would not sound right in English. Thoughts? This is just from a book I am reading, not something I really have a need to translate, but I find that trying to do this on occasion helps me think through the differences in usage - in this case, both vocabulary and grammar (changing around the parts of speech).

Prantsis
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Prantsis » 2019-09-16, 15:25

Linguaphile wrote:Does anyone here know if this word has an English translation?

What about "(architectural) language"?
Linguaphile wrote:So the (untranslated) sentence in which I've come across this word is the following:
Art deco värvimäng funktsionalismi selge vormikeelega mõjub üllatavalt ja haaravalt.
My attempt:
The art deco play of colors, together with a clear functionalist style, has a surprising and captivating effect. :?:
Grammatically the translation is quite different from the original, but I think a more literal translation would not sound right in English. Thoughts?

With functionalism's clear style? With functionalism's clarity? With the clarity of functionalist style? (I don't know what sounds right in English. The word "clear" in your translation sounds ambiguous to me, but maybe it's just me.)


I suddenly remembered your post two days ago when I read in a concert program:

Heino Elleri põhjamaiselt karge helikeele suurepäraseks näiteks on sümfooniline poeem „Koit“, mida loetakse üheks eesti sümfoonilise muusika tähtteoseks.

I would probably translate this "helikeel" as either "style" or "writing".

Linguaphile
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Re: Untranslatable words / tõlkimatuid sõnu

Postby Linguaphile » 2019-11-24, 18:37

Sauna words
Image
source


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