Tere!ghostie wrote:Tere! Küsin kaks väikest küsimust.
ghostie wrote:Tere! Küsin kahe väikeste küsimuste. 1. Is there any difference between the two diminutive suffixes -ke and -kene, and if not, is is entirely down to personal choice which one is used? 2. Can these suffixes be added to any noun, and if not, is there any way of knowing if a noun can take diminutive suffix, eg. is it reflected in a noun's dictionary entry?
Indeed, päike(ne) is supposedly the shortened form of *päivükkäinen (or something like that), which sure looks like a diminutive of päev.Linguaphile wrote:päike(ne) = sun (related to päev "day")
I think the meaning of äi has shifted in Estonian, since in other Finnic languages it seems to mean rather an old man, grandfather or even father, so äike(ne) most likely either refers to the apparition of or to the god of natural forces itself.Linguaphile wrote:äike(ne) = thunder (related to äi "father-in-law"!)
1. They are the same suffix, just the final -ne is often omitted in nominative singular.
But you need this -ne to decline the suffix (-ke(ne) : -kese : -kest; you cannot omit it in other cases).
2. Technically, you can add the suffix to any noun (that has a genitive form, which you will use as a stem you append the suffix to). In practice, there could be words that wouldn't make much (or any) sense with the appended suffix, but none pop into my head right now.
Linguaphile wrote:-ke and -kene have the same meaning in the nominative form, so it's just personal choice (or, in poetry, whichever one has the number of syllables you need ). In the other cases besides the nominative, the longer form changes to -kese and the shorter form cannot be used.
There are a few words which are always used with the diminutive form:
päike(ne) = sun (related to päev "day")
äike(ne) = thunder (related to äi "father-in-law"!)
väike(ne) = small (related to vähe "few")
õhuke(ne) = thin (related to õhk "air")
natuke(ne) = a little
lühike(ne) = short
I would say for the words listed above in the nominative case the -ke form tends to be preferred over the -kene form (just judging from how commonly I've encountered it with those words), except for natuke/natukene, for which both forms seem very common.
Võta heaks!ghostie wrote:Arvud on osastavas käändes! ("Üks" aga nimetavas käändes, jah?) Tänan, õppisin uue grammatikareegli. Jah suur aitäh, mõlemad! T(ei)e vastused on väga kasulikud. See on kena foorum, ma tulen (ka) siia tagasi, kui m(in)ul on/tekib jälle/veel küsimusi.
ainurakne wrote:ghostie wrote:Tere! Küsin kaks väikest küsimust.
ghostie wrote:Arvud on osastavas käändes! ("Üks" aga nimetavas käändes, jah?)
Oh, I didn't even realize the question was about that specific sentence. Thanks!Prantsis wrote:ainurakne wrote:ghostie wrote:Tere! Küsin kaks väikest küsimust.ghostie wrote:Arvud on osastavas käändes! ("Üks" aga nimetavas käändes, jah?)
ainurakne wrote:But "kaks küsimust" is inherently plural.
I would rather say "(Mäletan) kaht(e) viimast päeva" and "kahe viimase päeva (jooksul)".Prantsis wrote:"(Mäletan) viimast kahte päeva", "viimase kahe päeva (jooksul)"
I'm not sure either, it's really difficult to hear the words.Naava wrote:I think the first verse is "uni tule rutuga et magama ma jään" but what comes after it? I hear it every time as "sen kataen oma tekiga" which can't be right... I think it could be katan oma tekiga, but I just can't hear the first word as anything else than "sen".
Naava wrote:Yeah I found the original song (and lyrics) too! It's a pretty song. Is it a real lullaby or made up by Jaan Tätte?
But it looks like she's remembered some words incorrectly or changed them deliberately because she definitely sings "ma jään" rather than "jääks" and "olen homme parem kui olin eile" is "tuleb homme parem kui oli eile" for her. That's why I think it's possible she does say sind even though that's not what is in the original lyrics. She could swallow the final -d* and she sings in a... can I say she sings in a lax way? A bit breathy, sleepy manner, so that the pronunciation is not super exact. (Like the täna at 0:39 sounds almost like "täno" or "tänu" to me!)
So it might be sind but pronounced almost like sen(d), I think?
*I think she swallows letters elsewhere, too, like that "väsimus must läks" sounds like she'd say "väsimus us läes" at 0:20.
Linguaphile wrote:What I noticed is that the different versions have different intents, for example, in Jaan Tätte's version the lyrics are focused on the singer, in the campfire version the lyrics are instructions and in Naava's Youtube version the lyrics are meant to be sung to reassure someone else.
I don't know, actually I think I hadn't even heard the song before you brought it up here. Also, I'm not currently in a mood to do any research... sorry!Naava wrote:Is it used as a lullaby nowadays or is it well-known at all? What Estonian lullabies there are that are popular? Are these even questions about Estonian anymore?
Naava wrote:Estonian lullabies
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest