Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

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Linguaphile
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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-24, 2:22

Prantsis wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:This type of stove (I know it's a type of puupliit and I suppose also a type of pliitahi, but I'm wondering if there's a different word for this specific kind, that has a large "mouth" for the cooking space with heated areas both above and below it). I suppose the purpose of the upper part is to function like a soemüür to heat the room. So we've got soemüürid, pliidid, ahjud, but what do you call the whole unit like this? I've tried various terms in Google Image search, but none of my terms include images of this style of stove.

I´ve tried various terms too, like "kütte- ja küpsetusahi", and the closest design I've found is this:

Image

They call that "rootsi ahi", or even "rootslane".
But it seems they´re all made of brick, so I'm not sure it answers your question.

It seems like many of those sites might be translated from some other language. Like this one: Kuidas voldida Rootsi kütte- ja pliit (where the URL itself is in English: "how-to-fold-a-swedish-heating-and-cooking-stove"). :para:
Anyway a lot of the sites that use that term have "et" in the URL which usually means it's an Estonian version of a website that is otherwise in another language, often machine-translated. So it might be "rootsi ahi", or that might be a just poor translation from some other language? Just because the site is a translation doesn't necessarily mean they aren't actually called "rootsi ahi" in Estonian, I'm just not as confident about it when I see that kind of translated page. And yeah, they do all seem to be made of brick. :noclue:
Anyway, thank you for looking and posting! It's certainly quite close to what I was looking for, closer than what I'd found.

By the way, before you spend (more) time looking everywhere, it seems that stuff in my second set of photos is called krohvimatid.

Prantsis

Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Prantsis » 2021-03-24, 3:30

Linguaphile wrote:It seems like many of those sites might be translated from some other language.

Yes, you're completely right.

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-24, 4:38

Prantsis wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:It seems like many of those sites might be translated from some other language.

Yes, you're completely right.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you've found exactly the right thing, which is more than I was able to do. With your discovery I did another search using the Russian words for "rootsi ahi" (шведская печь) and "rootslane" (шведка). So now I know what it is called in Russian. (I don't know what to do with this information, but there it is. LOL) It has a Wikipedia page in Russian, but unfortunately no English or Estonian equivalent page that would give the name in those languages.

Image

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-06-14, 18:45

Loen Toomas Hendrik Ilvese elulugu. Raamatult leidsin lause "...Manhattani saare Upper West Side'i piirkonnas asuvas Morningside Heightsi rajoonis" ja see mind üllatas natuke lugeda, et kutsutati Ameerika Ühendriikide linna naabruskond "rajooniks". Kas see on normaalne? Eestikeelne Wikipedia järgi on Morningside Heights "naabruskond, mis asub Manhattani linnaosas, Harlemi ja Upper West Side'i vahepeal" ja kõik need on "naabruskonnad". Inglise keeles kasutatakse venekeelest laenatud sõna "raion" ehk "rayon" peamiselt ainult siis, kui tegemist on Venemaa või NSV-Liidu piirkonnadest ja ma arvasin, et eesti keeles ka. Eestimaal ei ole ju enam rajoone vaid pigem maakonnad. Kas teile siis ei kõla imelikult, et meil Ameerika Ühendriikides lausa Manhattani saarel oleks rajoonid alles? Või kas ainult minul on selline tunne?
:hmm: :silly:

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby ainurakne » 2021-06-15, 15:53

Ma pakun, et igasuguseid selliseid nimetusi kasutatakse üsna meelevaldselt eesti keeles ja eriti tähelepanu ei pöörata, kas sai nüüd õigesti või mitte.

Samas, kui vaadata Eesti keele seletavast sõnaraamatust, siis ei ole NSV Liidu haldusüksus sugugi mitte rajooni esimene tähendus. Näib, et ta võib olla igasugune maa-ala või piirkond.
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-06-15, 16:37

ainurakne wrote:Ma pakun, et igasuguseid selliseid nimetusi kasutatakse üsna meelevaldselt eesti keeles ja eriti tähelepanu ei pöörata, kas sai nüüd õigesti või mitte.

Samas, kui vaadata Eesti keele seletavast sõnaraamatust, siis ei ole NSV Liidu haldusüksus sugugi mitte rajooni esimene tähendus. Näib, et ta võib olla igasugune maa-ala või piirkond.

Aitäh!

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby aaakknu » 2022-02-27, 12:58

How to say "head of the president's office"?
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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-02-27, 15:04

aaakknu wrote:How to say "head of the president's office"?

presidendi kantselei ülem

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby aaakknu » 2022-02-27, 18:37

Linguaphile wrote:
aaakknu wrote:How to say "head of the president's office"?

presidendi kantselei ülem

Thanks!
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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby aaakknu » 2022-06-02, 8:59

What does "ao-" mean in "aohahetus"?
The definition of "hahetus" is "nõrk vaevumärgatav varahommikune valgus või helendus enne päikesetõusu" - would you translate it as "dawn" into English?
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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-06-02, 13:01

aaakknu wrote:What does "ao-" mean in "aohahetus"?
The definition of "hahetus" is "nõrk vaevumärgatav varahommikune valgus või helendus enne päikesetõusu" - would you translate it as "dawn" into English?

Kust sa leidsid nii ilusa liitsõna? :D
Ao is the genitive of agu, which means "koidueelne hämarus" or simply "koit".

So both wordparts refer to the light in the sky before sunrise. Yes, "dawn" is probably the best translation to English.
Aohahetus specifically refers to the very beginning of dawn, when there is only a very small amount of weak light in the sky, so some other words that can be used in English if you need to be more specific than "dawn" are "twilight" (although this also refers to the similar period just after sunset, so you could clarify by saying "morning twilight" if you need to be more precise); "pre-dawn light" or "the first blush of dawn".
But if you don't need to be that precise, "dawn" works just fine in English too.

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby aaakknu » 2022-06-02, 13:23

Thank you! I found that word in a short story. :)
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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-08-22, 4:16

Loen Petrone Prindi Minu Viljandi ja mul on sama raamat nii eesti kui ka inglise keeles. Võrdlesin kahte versiooni ja märkasin seda: inglise keeles on lause within weeks you would see peak occupancy in the hospitals, rationing of ventilators, and death. Eesti keeles on hoopis seda: mõne nädalaga on haiglad puupüsti täis, kehtestatakse toidunormid ja vikatimees käib ringi.
:hmm:
Ma ei saa aru, miks tõlkija tõlkis seda lauset niimoodi. Sõna toidunormid kasutatakse ainult toidu normeerimise kohta, eks ole? Ja rationing of ventilators oleks ventilaatorite ehk hingamisaparaatide normeerimine?
Teine küsimus: kas on võimalik (ja arusaadav) kasutada sõna toidunormid eeskujul moodustada ka liitsõnu nagu ventilaatorinormid ja hingamisaparaadinormid?

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby aaakknu » 2022-11-08, 11:19

In our class we discussed pseudocoordination (võtma + verb - ma võtsin (kätte) ja lugesin). Do you know any other interesting constructions in Estonian?
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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-11-08, 16:14

aaakknu wrote:In our class we discussed pseudocoordination (võtma + verb - ma võtsin (kätte) ja lugesin). Do you know any other interesting constructions in Estonian?

A couple that I studied or came across recently that come to mind:

millegi pähe + verb = "to pass off as, to be taken for"
    Pood müüs kasutatud arvuti uue pähe. = The shop sold used computers as new.
    Vahel pakutakse kehva käsitööd kõrge kunsti pähe. = Sometimes poor handiwork is passed off as high art.
    Koer lasti hundi pähe maha. = The dog, mistaken for a wolf, was shot.

[ükskõik] mis / kuhu ... ka ei [verb] = "no matter what/which/where"
    Töö on hästi tehtud, ükskõik mis nurga alt ka ei vaataks. The work is well-done, no matter which angle you look at it from.
    Kõik jääb endist viisi, mis ka ei juhtuks. = Everything remains the same, no matter what happens.
    Kuhu sa ka ei läheks, igal pool tema ees. = No matter where you go, there he is.

aitama ("to help") to mean piisama ("to suffice")
    Aitab küll, ära nii palju pane! = That's enough, don't put so much!
    Aitab, aitab! Jäta juba! = That's plenty, stop already!
    Aitab juba sellest idiootsusest! = Enough of this idiocy already!

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-12-01, 21:05

Ronida meeldis mulle juba lapsena, kõrgusekartust pole mul kunagi olnud. Puude otsaski sai kõvasti turnitud, kartmatult lausa mõne kuuse või lehise latva välja.

Question about lehise here:
Is he climbing to the treetops of spruce (kuusk) and larch (lehis) trees?
Or could it be that he's climbing spruce (kuusk) and leafy (lehine) treetops of an unspecified kind?
How can we tell?

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Naava » 2022-12-01, 23:16

Linguaphile wrote:Ronida meeldis mulle juba lapsena, kõrgusekartust pole mul kunagi olnud. Puude otsaski sai kõvasti turnitud, kartmatult lausa mõne kuuse või lehise latva välja.

Question about lehise here:
Is he climbing to the treetops of spruce (kuusk) and larch (lehis) trees?
Or could it be that he's climbing spruce (kuusk) and leafy (lehine) treetops of an unspecified kind?
How can we tell?

I'd go with leafy trees because that's pretty much all the climbing options you have (spruces and leafy trees) and because I imagine climbing a larch would be difficult.

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-12-02, 0:55

Naava wrote:I imagine climbing a larch would be difficult.

You are probably right, but elsewhere he talks about climbing all sorts of different things, including half-rotten survey marker poles that are taller than the surrounding trees:
Igal pool Eestis oli tollal veel alles geodeetilisteks mõõdistusteks ehitatud palkidest triangulatsioonimaste. Kui ma mõne sellise juurde sattusin, kasutasin alati juhust, et üles ronida. Need rajatised ulatusid tavaliselt üle ümberkaudsete puude ja metsade, pakkudes samuti head avarat vaadet. Päris ohutu niisugune ronimine siiski ei olnud, sest puidust tornid hakkasid ju lagunema ja mõned redelipulgad või astmed võisid olla muutunud päris mädaks. Seega pidi alati kontrolima, kas järgmise pulk ikka peab veel või mitte. Risk oli üsna suur, sest kui ma kuskil metsasügavuses asunud triangulatsioonitornist alla oleksin lennanud, poleks mind ilmselt niipea üles leitudki.
:shock:

So a larch might be just the very thing he'd climb. :mrgreen:

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Naava » 2022-12-02, 9:28

Linguaphile wrote:
Päris ohutu niisugune ronimine siiski ei olnud, sest puidust tornid hakkasid ju lagunema ja mõned redelipulgad või astmed võisid olla muutunud päris mädaks. Seega pidi alati kontrolima, kas järgmise pulk ikka peab veel või mitte. Risk oli üsna suur, sest kui ma kuskil metsasügavuses asunud triangulatsioonitornist alla oleksin lennanud, poleks mind ilmselt niipea üles leitudki.
:shock:

I wanted to be horrified by this and say something, but then I remembered how we used to climb the railing on a loft as kids... As in, we hold onto the railing and walked along the edge of the loft on that side where we had 3 metre fall to hard floor behind our backs. The adults were very not happy about this game and told us to stop repeatedly, saying we'd crack our heads open if we fell, but the moment they were gone we just shrugged like nah we're holding onto the railing not to fall, so that's not a problem? :para: I've also climbed some trees only to realise that now I'm 3 metres above ground and I don't know how to get down, but that's less scary than the railing thing.

So a larch might be just the very thing he'd climb. :mrgreen:

Maybe! :lol: But they tend to have so many annoying needles and weak branches that that would've been a real challenge.

I mean this is what I imagine when I think of a larch tree:
► Show Spoiler

And this is how I imagined a spruce:
► Show Spoiler

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Re: Küsimus eesti keele kohta / Questions about Estonian

Postby Linguaphile » 2022-12-02, 14:33

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:
Päris ohutu niisugune ronimine siiski ei olnud, sest puidust tornid hakkasid ju lagunema ja mõned redelipulgad või astmed võisid olla muutunud päris mädaks. Seega pidi alati kontrolima, kas järgmise pulk ikka peab veel või mitte. Risk oli üsna suur, sest kui ma kuskil metsasügavuses asunud triangulatsioonitornist alla oleksin lennanud, poleks mind ilmselt niipea üles leitudki.
:shock:

I wanted to be horrified by this and say something, but then I remembered how we used to climb the railing on a loft as kids... As in, we hold onto the railing and walked along the edge of the loft on that side where we had 3 metre fall to hard floor behind our backs. The adults were very not happy about this game and told us to stop repeatedly, saying we'd crack our heads open if we fell, but the moment they were gone we just shrugged like nah we're holding onto the railing not to fall, so that's not a problem? :para: I've also climbed some trees only to realise that now I'm 3 metres above ground and I don't know how to get down, but that's less scary than the railing thing.

:shock:
For some reason this reminds me of the plank on the second floor of this renovated Estonian palkmaja in Lihula (at 9:00):
https://youtu.be/j0H22mC9myE?t=540
"Looking down through our second floor, across the walkway into the master bedroom...."
The title is "the house is finished". No. Just no. No, it isn't.
But the thing is it's not the first time I've seen that sort of thing in old Estonian farmhouses. Also I have experienced several examples of Estonian (and Dutch) kids climbing terrifying trees to unrecommended heights. I think it must be something genetic, northern Europeans are simply born without the fear-of-heights gene. :mrgreen:

Naava wrote:I mean this is what I imagine when I think of a larch tree:
► Show Spoiler

And this is how I imagined a spruce:
► Show Spoiler

I see what you mean. I guess I'm not all that well-versed about the intricacies of larch trees. :mrgreen:


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