Not necessarily.littlepond wrote:Usually, isn't it that the first word (the possessor) is in its omastav (genitive) form?
ainurakne wrote:Maybe grade isn't the right word then. I'm not really sure how these things should be called in English.
Ok, thanks!Naava wrote:Grade is the correct word.
Sorry, but I have no idea!Naava wrote:Is there any rule which conjugations have strong and which have weak grades? I know that long time ago (Proto-Finnic maybe) the weak grade was used in closed syllables and the strong grade in open syllables, but I don't see how this works with hoone or kõrv.
ainurakne wrote:I'm not sure about kinnas (couldn't find it), but since its genitive in Finnish has double a (kintaan), I bet its Proto-Finnic form was something like: *kinnas : *kintasen : *kinnasta
Thanks! I hope that my "knowledge" about it is not wrong then.Naava wrote:I did not know that it's been -sen -> -hen -> hVn. (Again, speaking about the -s ending nouns only where that S is part of the word itself, not the suffix.) Thanks for telling me!
Oh snap! Of course I meant "*kintahen" and "*kintasen". I guess I automatically mixed up Finnish and Estonian spellings while repeating the word after reading it.Naava wrote:Are you sure about this kindasen? I thought the pair was t - ð, so *kinðas and *kintasen?
I think I have heard the same in Estonian too: "Toomase" (long) and "Tooma" (overlong).Naava wrote:I don't think either that kinnas would've ever been kinnaksen. I wonder what's the reason why some words have ks while others don't. Btw, there are some names in Finnish where both are possible: eg. Tuomas can be in genitive Tuomaksen or Tuoma(h)an.
This was how the system worked in LPF, but in probably all Baltic-Finnic languages the system has broken down, in Estonian even more than Finnish. This is the reason behind the fact that some word stems have "inverse" consonant gradation, i.e. genitive is strong, nominative is weak, like the S-nouns, *ek-nouns like Fi sade (< LPF *saδek : *sateγen, where /γ/ is a voiced velar fricative) and contracted verbs like Fi hakata : hakkaan ~ Est hakata : hakkan (< LPF *hak̆kat̆tak : *hakkaδan, where the breve above indicates that the geminate consonant is short).Naava wrote:Is there any rule which conjugations have strong and which have weak grades? I know that long time ago (Proto-Finnic maybe) the weak grade was used in closed syllables and the strong grade in open syllables, but I don't see how this works with hoone or kõrv.
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