Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

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Linguaphile
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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Linguaphile » 2016-11-24, 18:26

ainurakne wrote:You can make nouns from all past participles (although some of them may not make much sense or be very natural):
olnud (active past participle of olema) -> olnu (what(who) has been)
tehtud (passive past participle of tegema) -> tehtu (what has been done)

Thanks! I have seen some of those words (olnu, etc) but didn't realize that it was something that could be done with any past participle.

ainurakne wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:I've seen the proverb translated this way in various places on the web: "Õppimine on aare, mis järgib oma omanikku kõikjal."
This järgima seems weird here. :para:
I checked it from EKSS and it can indeed be used in that sense (although this usage is rare), but then the object should still be in allative case, it seems.

So is this one okay then:
Õpitu on aare, mis järgneb oma omanikule kõikjal :?:

ainurakne wrote:When the object is partitive, then järgima has a bit different meaning. I'm not sure how to exactly and simply translate it into English, but it is used for to follow an example / someone's lead / rules, to conform to ..., to abide by ..., to comply with ..., etc.

Ahaa! I had wondered why järgima was sometimes followed by allative and sometimes by partitive.

ainurakne wrote:Also, õppimine is the name of an action. How can an action be a treasure? :hmm:

The phrase comes from a Chinese proverb and it means either (a) the result of learning is that we get something valuable that we always have with us and/or (b) the process of learning gives us something valuable that we always have with us. I think that the original proverb means the process of learning/studying, but in English it's ambiguous and I don't speak Chinese. :blush:
Õpitu focuses on the result rather than the action - (a) rather than (b) - but I think it makes sense.....
The English translation is pretty well-known (like a proverb of our own) and it sounds cute because it makes me think of a puppy going everywhere with its owner - very loyal, always right there whenever you need it.
Anyway, I'm a teacher and I like the way the quote says that learning is valuable and something you can use anywhere, anytime - you can't lose it and it can't be stolen from you by someone else. Once you learn something, that knowledge is valuable and it is yours forever. To me that's what the proverb means.
English (en) Learning is a treasure that follows its owner everywhere.
Spanish (es) El aprendizaje es un tesoro que sigue a su dueño por todas partes.
Estonian (et) Õpitu on aare, mis saadab oma omanikku kõikjal.
German (de) Lernen ist ein Schatz, der seinem Besitzer überallhin folgt.
French (fr) L'apprentissage est un trésor qui suit son propriétaire partout.
Hmong (hmn) Txoj kev kawm yog cov khoom muaj nqis, uas raws nws tus tswv qhov txhia chaw.
Võro (vro) Op'minõ om aarõq, miä saat uma umanikku egäl puul.

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ainurakne
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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby ainurakne » 2016-11-25, 17:31

Linguaphile wrote:So is this one okay then:
Õpitu on aare, mis järgneb oma omanikule kõikjal :?:
I think so.

Also, there are again two options: "kõikjal" and "kõikjale", which in my opinion have a slight difference in meaning. But I guess I also used adessive case in my sentence, because using two successive allatives in a row would make the sentence a bit clumsy.
I don't know if I'm right or if I could explain it very well, but for me it seems like "järgnema kõikjal" is more like to be stuck on someone or to stalk someone - wherever someone goes, the other party is always after him/her. But "järgnema kõikjale" seems more like to agree to go everywhere with someone. If it makes any sense.

Also, I think you could use partitive with the verb saatma: ... saadab oma omanikku kõikjal(e).
In this context saatma means to accompany someone, to show the way to someone ...
(in this context "kõikjal" is better than "kõikjale", although I think both are possible)

Linguaphile wrote:Ahaa! I had wondered why järgima was sometimes followed by allative and sometimes by partitive.
Do you have any examples with allative? I think I had never seen "järgima" used with allative until yesterday.

Linguaphile wrote:The phrase comes from a Chinese proverb and it means either (a) the result of learning is that we get something valuable that we always have with us and/or (b) the process of learning gives us something valuable that we always have with us. I think that the original proverb means the process of learning/studying, but in English it's ambiguous and I don't speak Chinese. :blush:
Õpitu focuses on the result rather than the action - (a) rather than (b) - but I think it makes sense.....
The English translation is pretty well-known (like a proverb of our own) and it sounds cute because it makes me think of a puppy going everywhere with its owner - very loyal, always right there whenever you need it.
Anyway, I'm a teacher and I like the way the quote says that learning is valuable and something you can use anywhere, anytime - you can't lose it and it can't be stolen from you by someone else. Once you learn something, that knowledge is valuable and it is yours forever. To me that's what the proverb means.
:hmm: Hmm...
I think õpitu is not so much the result of learning, but everything that you yourself have obtained during the process of learning. On the other hand, using the action (õppimine) makes it sound kind of like a curse - wherever you go, you are always obligated to do some studying there.
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Naava
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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Naava » 2016-11-25, 18:21

Could you say something like "the skill of learning"? :hmm:

Ps. That curse-version sounds true tbh.
native: [flag=]fi[/flag]
speaks more or less fluently: [flag=]en[/flag]
can talk about weird topics in: [flag=]sv[/flag]
learning process started: [flag=]ru[/flag] & [flag=]et[/flag]

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Linguaphile » 2016-11-25, 18:43

ainurakne wrote:[Do you have any examples with allative? I think I had never seen "järgima" used with allative until yesterday.

:hmm: Vist on peamiselt vanemas keeles? Nagu seda http://dea.digar.ee/cgi-bin/dea?a=d&d=wabamaa19251105.1.2
"...et naine mehele järgima peab." (1925)
"Warsti oli Tarzan aimduseta looma kohal ja järgis talle waikselt" (1922)
ja muud (1923, 1928, jne). So it looks like a lot of the examples of allative with järgima, that I could find online, are from the 1920's. I just found these examples from searching right now. I'm not sure where I've seen it in the past but it does stand a good chance of being from the same time period. I do read a lot of older stuff... my Estonian can be a bit archaic sometimes. :roll: :oops:
Ka leidsin internetist (mitte vana keeles):
Koer usaldab mind ja järgib mulle meelega.
English (en) Learning is a treasure that follows its owner everywhere.
Spanish (es) El aprendizaje es un tesoro que sigue a su dueño por todas partes.
Estonian (et) Õpitu on aare, mis saadab oma omanikku kõikjal.
German (de) Lernen ist ein Schatz, der seinem Besitzer überallhin folgt.
French (fr) L'apprentissage est un trésor qui suit son propriétaire partout.
Hmong (hmn) Txoj kev kawm yog cov khoom muaj nqis, uas raws nws tus tswv qhov txhia chaw.
Võro (vro) Op'minõ om aarõq, miä saat uma umanikku egäl puul.

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Linguaphile » 2016-11-25, 19:18

Naava wrote:Ps. That curse-version sounds true tbh.

LOL! Yeah... I kinda like it.
English (en) Learning is a treasure that follows its owner everywhere.
Spanish (es) El aprendizaje es un tesoro que sigue a su dueño por todas partes.
Estonian (et) Õpitu on aare, mis saadab oma omanikku kõikjal.
German (de) Lernen ist ein Schatz, der seinem Besitzer überallhin folgt.
French (fr) L'apprentissage est un trésor qui suit son propriétaire partout.
Hmong (hmn) Txoj kev kawm yog cov khoom muaj nqis, uas raws nws tus tswv qhov txhia chaw.
Võro (vro) Op'minõ om aarõq, miä saat uma umanikku egäl puul.

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby h34 » 2016-11-25, 23:37

Linguaphile wrote:Järgmine:
The little puppy followed its new owner everywhere.

Väike kutsikas saatis oma uut omanikku kõikjal.

Järgmine:
The hungry bear followed the hiker.

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Prantsis » 2016-11-26, 1:14

Näljane karu jälitas matkajat.

Järgmine:
A journalist arrived first, followed by a policeman.

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby ainurakne » 2016-11-26, 10:25

Naava wrote:Could you say something like "the skill of learning"? :hmm:
Õppimisoskus (õppimisvõime)

Linguaphile wrote: :hmm: Vist on peamiselt vanemas keeles? ...
I see. I guess, nowadays it could be a dialectal thing then, maybe.
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Linguaphile » 2016-12-02, 5:15

Prantsis wrote:A journalist arrived first, followed by a policeman.

Esiteks saabus ajakirjanik, millele järgneb politseinik.

Järgmine:
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow.
English (en) Learning is a treasure that follows its owner everywhere.
Spanish (es) El aprendizaje es un tesoro que sigue a su dueño por todas partes.
Estonian (et) Õpitu on aare, mis saadab oma omanikku kõikjal.
German (de) Lernen ist ein Schatz, der seinem Besitzer überallhin folgt.
French (fr) L'apprentissage est un trésor qui suit son propriétaire partout.
Hmong (hmn) Txoj kev kawm yog cov khoom muaj nqis, uas raws nws tus tswv qhov txhia chaw.
Võro (vro) Op'minõ om aarõq, miä saat uma umanikku egäl puul.

Linguaphile
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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Linguaphile » 2016-12-05, 21:52

Linguaphile wrote:Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow.

I asked because I wasn't sure, so I'll give it a try myself.
Õpi eilsest, ela tänases, looda homsele. :?:

Järgmine:
There's no accounting for tastes. (hint:"there's no debating over tastes")
English (en) Learning is a treasure that follows its owner everywhere.
Spanish (es) El aprendizaje es un tesoro que sigue a su dueño por todas partes.
Estonian (et) Õpitu on aare, mis saadab oma omanikku kõikjal.
German (de) Lernen ist ein Schatz, der seinem Besitzer überallhin folgt.
French (fr) L'apprentissage est un trésor qui suit son propriétaire partout.
Hmong (hmn) Txoj kev kawm yog cov khoom muaj nqis, uas raws nws tus tswv qhov txhia chaw.
Võro (vro) Op'minõ om aarõq, miä saat uma umanikku egäl puul.

h34
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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby h34 » 2016-12-06, 6:17

Maitse üle ei vaielda.

Thanks for the hint! I was going to write "maitse üle ei saa vaielda", which would be a literal translation of the German version but having read your hint, I deleted "saa" (but kept the word order). Step by step...

Järgmine:
It is just a drop in the ocean, but the ocean is made up of drops.

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Linguaphile » 2016-12-06, 7:24

h34 wrote:It is just a drop in the ocean, but the ocean is made up of drops.

See on vaid tilk meres, aga meri koosneb tilkadest.

Järgmine:
Everyone hears only what he wants to hear.
English (en) Learning is a treasure that follows its owner everywhere.
Spanish (es) El aprendizaje es un tesoro que sigue a su dueño por todas partes.
Estonian (et) Õpitu on aare, mis saadab oma omanikku kõikjal.
German (de) Lernen ist ein Schatz, der seinem Besitzer überallhin folgt.
French (fr) L'apprentissage est un trésor qui suit son propriétaire partout.
Hmong (hmn) Txoj kev kawm yog cov khoom muaj nqis, uas raws nws tus tswv qhov txhia chaw.
Võro (vro) Op'minõ om aarõq, miä saat uma umanikku egäl puul.

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby hashi » 2016-12-07, 1:25

Linguaphile wrote:Everyone hears only what he wants to hear.

I haven't touched Estonian for a looonnnnnngggggg time, but I sometimes read stuff on this forum. However, I am profoundly bored, so I might give this a go just to see how it works out.

Igaüks kuuleb, ainult mida tahavad kuulda.

Järgmine:
He stroked his beard while thinking deeply about which food to order.
[flag=]en-nz[/flag][flag=]ja[/flag][flag=]sv[/flag][flag=]it[/flag][flag=]de[/flag][flag=]et[/flag]

Nithalos @CWS

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Linguaphile » 2016-12-10, 20:07

hashi wrote:Igaüks kuuleb ainult seda, mida tahab kuulda.


hashi wrote:He stroked his beard while thinking deeply about which food to order.

Ta silitas habet sügavalt mõeldes, millist toitu tellida :?: (struggling with grammar here)

Järgmine:
Stay true to your principles.
English (en) Learning is a treasure that follows its owner everywhere.
Spanish (es) El aprendizaje es un tesoro que sigue a su dueño por todas partes.
Estonian (et) Õpitu on aare, mis saadab oma omanikku kõikjal.
German (de) Lernen ist ein Schatz, der seinem Besitzer überallhin folgt.
French (fr) L'apprentissage est un trésor qui suit son propriétaire partout.
Hmong (hmn) Txoj kev kawm yog cov khoom muaj nqis, uas raws nws tus tswv qhov txhia chaw.
Võro (vro) Op'minõ om aarõq, miä saat uma umanikku egäl puul.

h34
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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby h34 » 2016-12-11, 0:56

Jää truuks oma printsiipidele. :?:

Järgmine:
The weather is expected to stay mild.

Irusia
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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Irusia » 2016-12-11, 18:45

h34 wrote:The weather is expected to stay mild.


Eeldatakse, et ilm jääb mõõdukaks.

Järgmine:
To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.
[flag=]uk[/flag] Здайся на Господа у твоїх справах, і задуми твої здійсняться. (Приповідки 16, 3)
[flag=]en[/flag] Entrust your work to the Lord, and your planning will succeed. (Proverbs 16, 3)
[flag=]et[/flag] Veereta oma tööd Issanda peale,
siis su kavatsused lähevad korda. (Õpetussõnad 16, 3)
[flag=]es[/flag] Pon en manos del Señor todas tus obras, y tus proyectos se cumplirán. (Proverbios 16, 3)

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby h34 » 2016-12-12, 3:47

Irusia wrote: To get something you never had, you have to do something you never did.

Selleks, et saada midagi, mida sul ei ole kunagi olnud, pead sa tegema midagi, mida sa ei ole kunagi teinud. :?:

Järgmine:
It is still early in the morning, the roads are almost empty and the sound of the wind is louder than the sound of the traffic.

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Irusia » 2016-12-12, 5:29

h34 wrote:It is still early in the morning, the roads are almost empty and the sound of the wind is louder than the sound of the traffic.


On veel varahommikul, teed on peaaegu tühjad ja tuule heli on kõvem, kui liikluse heli.
[flag=]uk[/flag] Здайся на Господа у твоїх справах, і задуми твої здійсняться. (Приповідки 16, 3)
[flag=]en[/flag] Entrust your work to the Lord, and your planning will succeed. (Proverbs 16, 3)
[flag=]et[/flag] Veereta oma tööd Issanda peale,
siis su kavatsused lähevad korda. (Õpetussõnad 16, 3)
[flag=]es[/flag] Pon en manos del Señor todas tus obras, y tus proyectos se cumplirán. (Proverbios 16, 3)

Prantsis
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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby Prantsis » 2016-12-14, 18:15

Ma kujutan endast erandit ning mängureeglid minu puhul ei kehti.

Järgmine:
And the person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.

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Re: Tõlkimise mäng / Translation game

Postby h34 » 2016-12-14, 20:11

Prantsis wrote: And the person that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and fool.


Ja (seda) inimest, kes julgeb tõtt rääkida, nimetatakse korraga kuutõbiseks ja lolliks. :?:

Järgmine:
The truth looks different from different perspectives.


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