Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

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Linguaphile
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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-08-11, 5:53

Naava wrote:This joke reminds me of the news I heard some years ago. They said that Finnish has a new mood, the aggressive. I'm still not sure how seriously people take this, but imo it's funny. :ohwell:

Well, the Finnish aggressivi is apparently ahead of those new Estonian cases, because it has its own Wikipedia page. :shock: Even the värskeltütlev kääne doesn't get one of those. (Or maybe the aggressiivi was just more aggressive in promoting itself.)

There is also:
Käänded koertele: haukuv, urisev, ulguv, niuksuv, jalgatõstev.

Prantsis wrote:This joke reminds me of a thread in a different forum.
Prantsis, I was looking at your link again. Even the question itself (mis on teie lemmik eesti keele kääne?) strikes me as silly, and somehow the answers that took the question seriously seem as funny as the ones that didn't, maybe because they are mixed in so randomly with the puns. I'm trying to think of how I would answer that question myself.
Let's see: I like the sound of some words in the lühike sisseütlev case, like majja, linna, tallu, ojja. I like the formation of the omastav case and the fact that it can be so conveniently used to form eleven of the others. And at times I've had an intense dislike of the mitmuse osastav. :rotfl:
As for the unreal ones, the teisitiütlev really should be a real thing, because I'm pretty sure I use it all the time, whenever I can't think of the right word or when I misuse the mitmuse osastav, for example. (Or maybe that is the eksiv kääne that I use.) Aga mu lemmik kääne on naerutav (või naerev).
So how about the rest of you? Mis on teie lemmik eesti keele kääne?

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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby aaakknu » 2018-08-11, 11:03

Minu lemmik eesti keele kääne on osastav, lihtsalt sest seda on kõige raskem õppida. Ma armastan kõike, mis on keeruline. :D
Mulle meeldivad ka olev kääne ja saav kääne, sest mulle tundub, et need on haruldased maailma keeltes. (Vähemalt ma ei tea mitte soome-ugri keeltest, mis kasutavad neid).
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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-08-17, 3:36

Salajane wrote:Minu lemmik eesti keele kääne on osastav, lihtsalt sest seda on kõige raskem õppida. Ma armastan kõike, mis on keeruline. :D
Mulle meeldivad ka olev kääne ja saav kääne, sest mulle tundub, et need on haruldased maailma keeltes. (Vähemalt ma ei tea mitte soome-ugri keeltest, mis kasutavad neid).

Mul on hea meel sind näha, Salajane! Sind pole ammu siin näinud. Jah, need on küll haruldased käänded. Wikipedia järgi kasutakse "esivo" (olevat käänet) ka Esperanto keeles, aga väidetavalt ainult ajaväljendites.

Teisel teemal, leidsin selle tsitaat eesti keelest tõlkimise kohta:

"You only have to mention in a group of people that you are currently translating something from Estonian and you do it for pleasure foremost, and it creates a commotion: immediately, a circle forms around you, a girl asks how you got the strange idea of studying such a language, an older gentleman explains that he would love to visit Riga, a mature lady announces that she has always found the Balkans charming and a shy young man adds that he loves everything Slavic. Correcting all these mistakes takes a while and allows the translator to remain the center of attention for the better part of the evening, to make his audience think they have travelled far and learned a lot, while the poor translator of American literature sits in the corner, alone and bored, with his tales of New York or Los Angeles known to everyone. And if the translator from Estonian has managed to remain calm when asked whether Estonian has grammar or whether the Estonians are still cannibals, he will be remembered as a wonderful eccentric and a brave explorer, if he managed to talk about that Sunday in August, when, risking his life in the deep Estonian jungle, he succeeded in discovering the mysterious land unknown to the outside world - the Seto Kingdom, and from his mobile phone, show photos of the Seto people dressed in their ethnic costumes. There is also a possibility that he manages to inspire some people to buy an Estonian novel in French, and this is how ten Frenchmen learn that Estonians live in the forest, eat only meat, speak to vipers and bears and ride wolves and drink their milk. This is how nations get to know each other better."
- Jean-Pierre Minaudier, Mees, kes teadis ussisõnu prantsuse keelde tõlkija

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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby Naava » 2018-08-18, 13:07

Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:This joke reminds me of the news I heard some years ago. They said that Finnish has a new mood, the aggressive. I'm still not sure how seriously people take this, but imo it's funny. :ohwell:

Well, the Finnish aggressivi is apparently ahead of those new Estonian cases, because it has its own Wikipedia page. :shock: Even the värskeltütlev kääne doesn't get one of those. (Or maybe the aggressiivi was just more aggressive in promoting itself.)

The name is a joke, but the construction is real. Maybe that's why people thought it's so hilarious that it deserves it's own page. :mrgreen:
By the way, sometimes I've wondered if it's the source of Estonian mitte. Does anyone know where mitte came from? Have I asked this before or have I just been thinking about it so often that I have a deja vu now?

Linguaphile wrote:So how about the rest of you? Mis on teie lemmik eesti keele kääne?

I've always liked essive. nananana batmaaan... :twisted: It's also fascinating how it used to be something like a locative.

I'd love to know what ässitav and usaldav kääne would be like. They sound cool. 8-)

Linguaphile wrote:Teisel teemal, leidsin selle tsitaat eesti keelest tõlkimise kohta:

I'm afraid this is what really happens. A few of my friends who've visited Scotland have been asked if Finland has electricity and if there's polar bears there. I've been asked if the snow ever melts in Lapland, which felt funny because every now and then, it's actually hotter in Lapland than elsewhere in Finland. There are also people who think Finland is either Norway, Sweden or the capital of Sweden (reaaally...) or part of Russia, or that Finland is somewhere in Africa or maybe close to Canada. I don't know what people think of Estonia, but I'd be surprised if it was any better. :D
Other interesting comments from the part-of-Russia-thread: Some Germans assumed Finns don't live in houses. Americans asked if we have cars "in Netherlands down there" (to which the person who was asked the question almost answered "no, but we have lots of windmills and clogs"). Someone who moved to the US was asked if we had polar bears, if the penguins walked in the streets, if s/he had ever seen a brown haired person (as we're all platinum blond(e)s here), and if s/he had ever been at a Viking funeral (???).

Ok, back to Eesti: I'm having a wanderlust again. I saw there's an Estonian course this autumn and I might have a chance to get in there, but I'm not sure..... I should study lots of other things so I could graduate at some point, but Estonian...! The teacher's changed, too, so maybe this one won't try to make us sing songs in Estonian. The previous one did, and it failed, but she didn't mind. I liked her, but I didn't like the singing. :mrgreen: She was also one of those Estonians who know Finnish very well but who have such a strong accent that you never knew when she was speaking in Estonian and when in Finnish. Imo that was fun.

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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-08-18, 16:56

Naava wrote:By the way, sometimes I've wondered if it's the source of Estonian mitte. Does anyone know where mitte came from? Have I asked this before or have I just been thinking about it so often that I have a deja vu now?

Yes, mitte and mitään have the same etymological origin. In Votic it is mittää or mikää.
In Estonian it's supposedly based on an old partitive form of of mis (or from a partitive of its proto-form? in other words it's etymologically related to mida but derives from an older form of it), and from what I understand it wasn't originally negative by itself; historically the sentence would have had another negator such as ei. Of course, in a lot of contexts mitte is still used in conjunction with ei, but it has a negative meaning on its own now.
I don't think we've discussed mitte here before but you might be thinking of pole (which comes from the historical negative verb in 3rd person singular ep + copula ole) or teps (which comes from mitte eps, again from the historical negative verb in 3rd person singular). I think somewhere there is a thread about those. Anyway, you can also combine all of them for a really emphatic negative phrase: See pole teps mitte hea! ("this is not good at all!") for example. But although it can sound emphatic, I wouldn't describe it as sounding particularly "aggressive". (With a particular tone of voice it certainly could, of course. But the words themselves don't make it aggressive.)

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:So how about the rest of you? Mis on teie lemmik eesti keele kääne?

I've always liked essive. nananana batmaaan... :twisted: It's also fascinating how it used to be something like a locative.

I'd love to know what ässitav and usaldav kääne would be like. They sound cool. 8-)
:D

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Teisel teemal, leidsin selle tsitaat eesti keelest tõlkimise kohta:

I'm afraid this is what really happens. A few of my friends who've visited Scotland have been asked if Finland has electricity and if there's polar bears there. I've been asked if the snow ever melts in Lapland, which felt funny because every now and then, it's actually hotter in Lapland than elsewhere in Finland. There are also people who think Finland is either Norway, Sweden or the capital of Sweden (reaaally...) or part of Russia, or that Finland is somewhere in Africa or maybe close to Canada. I don't know what people think of Estonia, but I'd be surprised if it was any better. :D

Yeah, I know. I think the quote is funny because it's pretty close to the truth (by that I mean close to what people really think, not close to what really is. Especially what they might really think after reading that book if they don't know anything about the actual historical timeline or the folklore that it's [loosely] based on). By the way, Naava, how are all of your Finnish street-penguins and polar bears dealing with the heat this summer? This year's weather must be so hard for them. :lol:
Image (photo source. NB: Not Finland! And not summer! And not real penguins!)

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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-23, 21:42

Huvitav lugemine üleeilsest ajalehest:
EKI keelekool: Sirkel samuti ja teised

Kuidas talitada, kui süda ütleb üht, aga reegel käsib teist? Kui järgida tundmusi, saate süüdistuse asjatundmatuses, kui aga reeglit, peetakse teid parimal juhul eluvõõraks tähenärijaks.

Aastakümneid on eestlasi õpetatud võõrkeelte nimesid hääldama nii, nagu on vastavas võõrkeeles, ja pilgatud neid, kes loevad autonimeks peugeott. See on matslik.

Nüüd, kus Eestisse tulvab uksest ja aknast võõrkeelseid ärinimesid, tekib minus nõutus. Need ei ole sellised, mille korra välja ütled ja siis unustad. Ei, need on meie igapäevanimed, mis seni olid koduselt eestipärased ja mis nüüd – eri ettekäänetel või põhjustel – on järsku väljamaakeelsed.

Üks esimesi oli Hansapanga muutumine Swedbankiks. Põhjus ju arusaadav, omaniku vahetus, aga kohe hakati küsima, kuidas nime hääldada ja käänata – kas sueedbänk või suiidbänk või lihtsalt sveedpank. Ja kas Swedbanki võib käänata ka Swedpanga. Küsijaks muide ka segaduses pangatöötajad ise.... Loe edasi Postimehest

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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby Prantsis » 2018-09-24, 20:38

See tuletab mulle meelde, et kuulsin hiljuti eesti tivišõus hääldavat à la française ja laitmatultki helilooja Chopin nime, kaasa arvatud selles olevat nasaalset täishäälikut.

Linguaphile
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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-09-25, 1:39

Prantsis wrote:See tuletab mulle meelde, et kuulsin hiljuti eesti tivišõus hääldavat à la française ja laitmatultki helilooja Chopin nime, kaasa arvatud selles olevat nasaalset täishäälikut.

But I think your word tivišõu is more interesting than the pronunciation of Chopin with a nasal vowel.... :mrgreen:

Linguaphile
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Re: Eesti keele kohvik / Estonian language café

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-12, 4:21

Eestlaste pidu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FsDdoxy9Bo
Suur Komöödiaõhtu jätkab! Nädalavahetus on ees, seega miks mitte seda juba täna õhtul tähistada? Eestlased on peorahvas. Kuulamine! Laud on kaetud!
Võtame!
Vala välja! (4x)
Kurgid ise soolasin. (3x)
Vala välja! Ma olen roolis. (3x)
Vala välja!
Ah kes see ilus poiss on?
Vala välja!
Suitsetame rõdul! (3x)
Mul on paha.
Ah miks rosoljet keegi ei söö? Vala välja! (2x)
Ah miks rosoljet keegi ei söö? Ah miks rosoljet keegi ei söö?
Vala välja! Ma lähen magama. (3x)
Vala välja! Ma olen tagasi.
Suitsetame rõdul! (3x)
Rõdul on külm, suitsetame köögis!
Vala välja! Ma olen roolis. (3x)
Valan välja?
Kas mina üksi olen roolis?
Ah miks sülti keegi ei söö? (3x)
Ah kus see tualett siin on?
Seened ise korjasin. (3x)
Ah kes see ilus poiss on?
Valan välja? Ma olen roolis. (3x)
Valan välja? Valan välja?
Palju pitsis viinas promilli on?
Vala välja!
Rõdul on külm, suitsetame köögis! Suitsetame köögis! Suitsetame köögis!
Köök on suitsu täis, suitsetame siin!
Ah miks keegi torti ei söö? (3x) Miks keegi midagi ei söö?
Vala välja!
Seened!
Vala välja!
Mul on paha!
Vala välja!
Suitsetame siin!
Ah kus see tualett siin on?
Suitsetame rõdul! Vala välja! Ma olen roolis!
Suitsetame siin! Vala välja! Ma olen roolis!
Suitsetame rõdul! Vala välja! Ma olen roolis!
Suitsetame siin! Vala välja!
Homme on pidu meie juures!


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