Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby s4nder » 2009-07-01, 10:33

Some additional corrections:

EXERCISE 3:

3. I'm not asking where she is
Ma ei küsi, kus ta on

4. She isn't at home either
Ta ei ole kodus ka ("Ta ei ole isegi kodus" would mean "she's not even at home.")

5. I'm not coming yet, I'm coming a little later.
Ma veel ei tule, tulen natuke hiljem.


EXERCISE 4:

1. We don't know the school
Me ei tea seda kooli ("seda" as in that particular school)

4. You (pl.) don't know the shop
Te ei tea seda kauplust

5. I don't know that boy
Ma ei tunne seda poissi

I also say Tallinnat in partitive case but Tallinna is probably correct as well. "Yet" in Estonian is veel.

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-10-03, 8:32

...Õpin jälle eesti keelt :) I did the following exercises, could someone check them for me palun? :)

Exercise 5

1. I'm going somewhere
Ma lähen kuhugi
2. Tõnu is going to the department store
Tõnu läheb kaubamajja
3. Piret is going to town
Piret läheb linna
4. They are going to the cinema
Lähevad kinno
5. We're not going anywhere
Me ei lähe kuhugi
6. Perhaps I'll go home
Võib-olla lähen koju
7. I think we might go to the town
Ma mõtlen, et võib-olla läheme linna

Exercise 6
A: Excuse me, do you know where Tõnu is?
B: Yes, he's coming to town soon
A: But don't you know where he is?
B: No I don't know. Perhaps he's in town already
A: No, I know he's not there
B: Perhaps he's at the department store. He's going to the department store today, I know.
A: Thanks, I'll come a little later.

A: Vabandage, Sa ei tea, kus Tõnu on?
B: Jah, varsti ta tuleb linna
A: Aga sa ei tea, kus ta on?
B: Ei, ma ei mõtle. Võib-olla ta on linnas <already>
A: Ei, ma tean, et ta ei ole seda
B: Võib-olla ta on kaubamajas. Ma mõtlen, et ta läheb täna kaubamajja
A: Aitäh, ma tulen natuke hiljem


Exercise 8 (these questions refer to a short text I won't type out)
1. Kus Piret elab, kui ta on Tallinnas?
Piret elab Tallinnas
2. Kus ta on õhtuti
?
3. Keda tahab Tõnu näha?
Tõnu tahab Piretit näha
4. Mida Tõnu küsib?
Tõnu küsib, kas Piret tahab välja minna
5. Kuhu nad lähevad
Nad lähevad kinno

Thats lesson two complete. Finally :)

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby s4nder » 2009-10-03, 22:50

Some corrections:

Exercise 5

They are going to the cinema.
Nad lähevad kinno.

Exercise 6

Excuse me, do you know where Tõnu is?
Kas sa tead, kus Tõnu on? "Vabanda(ge)" isn't necessary when asking a person you know.

But don't you know where he is?
Aga kas sa siis ei tea, kus ta on?

No I don't know. Perhaps he's in town already.
Ei, ma ei tea. Võib-olla ta on juba linnas.

No, I know he's not there.
Ei, ma tean, et ta ei ole seal.

Perhaps he's at the department store. He's going to the department store today, I know.
Võib-olla ta on kaubamajas. Ma tean, et ta läheb täna kaubamajja.


Exercise 8

Kus ta on õhtuti? - the question means "Where is she (usually) in the evenings?"

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-10-03, 23:04

s4nder wrote:But don't you know where he is?
Aga kas sa siis ei tea, kus ta on?


Thanks heaps :)

One question: Why siis?

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby s4nder » 2009-10-03, 23:12

Using siis takes into account that you already asked him once and he didn't really answer your question. "But don't you know where he is then?" It's not very necessary though and can be omitted.

By the way, these were all minor mistakes and you could probably hold a conversation pretty well :waytogo:.

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-10-07, 12:17

Mul on paar küsimust...

I was talking to Martin (an eestlane on Unilang who doesn't come on very often) and I was asking about "like", and he couldn't really explain it, so wondering if someone else can enlighten me.

He told me this is correct:
Mulle meeldib kuulata muusikat. (I like listening to music)

I was wondering why you use mulle and can't use ma meeldin kuulata muusikat. Does ma meeldin have a different meaning? The other thing was the word order, why ...kuulata muusikat and not ...meeldib muusikat kuulata? Are they both ok? If not, why?

Tänan in advance :)

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby s4nder » 2009-10-07, 13:41

"Like" and meeldima don't have the exact same meaning to my mind. I think the easiest way to explain this is to switch the word order to Muusikat kuulata meeldib mulle. The verb meeldib in this context means "is liked." The translation would be "Listening to music is liked by me." The subject is the thing you like, not you. So "who likes what" in Estonian is kellele meeldib mis - "by whom is liked what."

Similarly, Ma meeldin muusikale would mean "I am liked by music." Mulle meeldib kuulata muusikat word for word would be "By me is liked listening to music." Compared to English, the subject has changed and that's why it might be confusing.

I don't know if this is factually correct as I don't have a language degree or any special knowledge on the subject but it seems to make sense to me.

Mulle meeldib kuulata muusikat is correct since meeldib kuulata is the verb in the sentence and ideally it shouldn't be split. Word order is not set in stone like in Indo-European languages, however, and Mulle meeldib muusikat kuulata is fine as well.

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-10-07, 18:31

s4nder wrote:I don't know if this is factually correct as I don't have a language degree or any special knowledge on the subject but it seems to make sense to me.


Don't be silly, you're a native and no more than someone with a general language degree about Estonian in particular :)

Thanks for your explanation, it makes perfect sense to me and I value your input :P

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-10-09, 0:39

I'm back with Lesson Three under my belt :) Estonian just seems to get more and more interesting.

Exercise 1 (insert object).

1. Ma armastan sind
2. Ma võtan kohvi
3. Ma näen koera
4. Ta kutsub Pireti kinno

Further Questions.
- It mentions the sentence Ma pean minema rongi peale. Where does the peale come from and why not just ma pean minema rongile?
- It uses the sentence Minu meelest oli reis pikk, ja mite väga huvitav. What is the function of mitte?

Exercise 2:
1. 2 coffees and 5 buns - kaks kohvi ja viis saiast
2. 3 coffees and 2 sandwhiches - kaks kohvi ja kolm võileiba
3. 5 cofffees and 4 buns - viis kohvi ja neli saiast (seda inimesel on kõht tühi xD)
4. 9 glasses of milk - üheksa klaasi piima
5. 4 cups of tea - neli tassi tee
6. 3 cups of black coffee - kolm tassi musta tee
7. 7 glasses of water - seitse klaasi vett

Exercise 4 (insert pidama):
1. Ma pean minema (lähen) varsti koju
2. Oma eesti sõbraga pead rääkima (räägid) sa eesti keelt.
3. Seal peab olema (on) ülikool. Ma pean teadma (tean), kus see on.
4. Sina pead käima(?)(mis on käima?) (käid) sageli meie kaubamajas.
5. Ma pean helistama (helistan) koju, aga enne ma pean ootama (ootan) veel natuke.
6. Meie sõbrad peavad õppima (õpivad) inglise keelt.

Exercise 5 (translate to estonian):
1. He travels from town to town - Ta sõitan linnast linna.
2. I'm coming home soon. Wait for me. Ma tulen varsti koju. Ootage mind.
3. You were there at eight o'clock. Where was she? Sa olid seal kaheksa tundi. Kus ta oli?
4. Tiina is coming to the cinema with a friend. Tiina tuleb kinno sõbraga.
5. I won't come with you, I'm too tired. Ma ei lähe suga, ma olen liiga väsinud.
6. I'll come by train, but perhaps about 6 o'clock is too soon. Ma tulen rongiga, aga võib-olla umbes kuus tundi on liiga varsti.

--

Tänan :)

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby Arvi » 2009-10-09, 6:31

はしさん wrote:I'm back with Lesson Three under my belt :) Estonian just seems to get more and more interesting.

Exercise 1 (insert object).

1. Ma armastan sind
2. Ma võtan kohvi
3. Ma näen koera
4. Ta kutsub Pireti kinno

Further Questions.
- It mentions the sentence Ma pean minema rongi peale. Where does the peale come from and why not just ma pean minema rongile?
- It uses the sentence Minu meelest oli reis pikk, ja mite väga huvitav. What is the function of mitte?


You can freely use both 'rongi peale' and 'rongile'.

'Huvitav - ebahuvitav/igav' - (something is) interesting - not interesting/boring;
'Väga huvitav - väga ebahuvitav/väga igav' - very interesting - very boring;
'Väga huvitav - mitte väga huvitav' - very interesting - not very interesting.

Exercise 2:
1. 2 coffees and 5 buns - kaks kohvi ja viis saiast

kaks kohvi ja viis saiakest
sai=white bread
saiake=bun (diminutive from 'sai')
2. 3 coffees and 2 sandwhiches - kaks kohvi ja kolm võileiba
3. 5 cofffees and 4 buns - viis kohvi ja neli saiast (seda inimesel on kõht tühi xD)

viis kohvi ja neli saiakest (sest inimesel on kõht tühi xD)
4. 9 glasses of milk - üheksa klaasi piima
5. 4 cups of tea - neli tassi tee
6. 3 cups of black coffee - kolm tassi musta tee

kolm tassi musta teed
7. 7 glasses of water - seitse klaasi vett

Exercise 4 (insert pidama):
1. Ma pean minema (lähen) varsti koju

Word order isn't just wrong, but it feels somewhat clumsy. Better is:
Ma pean varsti koju minema/Varsti pean ma koju minema.
2. Oma eesti sõbraga pead rääkima (räägid) sa eesti keelt.

Oma Eesti sõbraga pead sa eesti keelt rääkima/Oma Eesti sõbraga pead sa rääkima eesti keelt.
3. Seal peab olema (on) ülikool. Ma pean teadma (tean), kus see on.
4. Sina pead käima(?)(mis on käima?) (käid) sageli meie kaubamajas.

'Käima' has several meanings in Estonian:
to walk - ma käin palju jala = I'm walking much;
(some device) to work - autot käima panema = to start the car;
go to/went to (someplace) - käima tööl= to work, käima koolis=went to shool, käima jahil=go hunting.
5. Ma pean helistama (helistan) koju, aga enne ma pean ootama (ootan) veel natuke.

Ma pean helistama koju, aga enne pean ma veel natuke ootama.
6. Meie sõbrad peavad õppima (õpivad) inglise keelt.

Exercise 5 (translate to estonian):
1. He travels from town to town - Ta sõitan linnast linna.

Ta sõidab linnast linna.
2. I'm coming home soon. Wait for me. Ma tulen varsti koju. Ootage mind.

Oodake mind
3. You were there at eight o'clock. Where was she? Sa olid seal kaheksa tundi. Kus ta oli?

Sa olid seal kaheksa tundi. Kus tema oli?
The object was changed, so 'she' must be accented and full form must be used.
4. Tiina is coming to the cinema with a friend. Tiina tuleb kinno sõbraga.
5. I won't come with you, I'm too tired. Ma ei lähe suga, ma olen liiga väsinud.

Nothing wrong here, but 'suga' and 'taga' forms are usually avoided - probably because the sentence will be too clumsy, and also both of those shot forms are identical to other words (suga=comb, taga=behind).
6. I'll come by train, but perhaps about 6 o'clock is too soon. Ma tulen rongiga, aga võib-olla umbes kuus tundi on liiga varsti.

Ma tulen rongiga, aga kella kuue paiku on vast liiga vara.
'Varsti' - soon, after some short time;
'Vara' - early, before the right time.

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-10-09, 6:59

Ok, thank you. I have a further question about your corrections.

If kaheksa tundi, why kuue tundi?
And what does the vast in ...on vast liiga vara. mean? Is that the "perhaps" that was meant to be there? If so, what's wrong with võib-olla.

Thanks :)

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby Arvi » 2009-10-09, 10:29

はしさん wrote:Ok, thank you. I have a further question about your corrections.

If kaheksa tundi, why kuue tundi?
And what does the vast in ...on vast liiga vara. mean? Is that the "perhaps" that was meant to be there? If so, what's wrong with võib-olla.

Thanks :)


Sorry, I misread the sentence completly!

You were there at eight o'clock. Where was she?
Sa olid seal kell kaheksa. Kus tema (sel ajal) oli.

vast=vahest=võib-olla
But sometimes, p.e. when used with clock time, 'vast' translates more like 'approximately', what makes it a better match for this sentence, I think.

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-10-09, 20:43

Arvi wrote:Sorry, I misread the sentence completly!

You were there at eight o'clock. Where was she?
Sa olid seal kell kaheksa. Kus tema (sel ajal) oli.

vast=vahest=võib-olla
But sometimes, p.e. when used with clock time, 'vast' translates more like 'approximately', what makes it a better match for this sentence, I think.


Tänan! Ma mõistan nüüd :)
When I have finished the rest of the exercises in Lesson Three I'll post them here :)

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby Levo » 2009-10-09, 21:30

はしさん wrote:Ok, thank you. I have a further question about your corrections.

If kaheksa tundi, why kuue tundi?

Thanks :)

These are the questions which Estonians usually don't get. :)
Omastav and Osastav. Because they start to tell you the very typical examples of omastav, which are clear. (Leib - leiva peale). But not the cases, when they use omastav for the subject of the sentence.
I eat bread. - Söön leiba/Söön leiva ära...

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby Pauro » 2009-10-11, 18:33

Tere!

I've decided to join this Forum for I've got a difficulty with translating a public notice (a little bit formal language). I can't find an exact match for 'lean out' in Estonian. Here are my suggestions:
Ära kalluta/upita ennast/end välja!
Ära sirutu välja!

Could you suggest the way which would sound most formal and most 'Estonian'?

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-10-12, 6:50

Pauro wrote:Tere!

I've decided to join this Forum for I've got a difficulty with translating a public notice (a little bit formal language). I can't find an exact match for 'lean out' in Estonian. Here are my suggestions:
Ära kalluta/upita ennast/end välja!
Ära sirutu välja!

Could you suggest the way which would sound most formal and most 'Estonian'?


Hijacking my thread isn't the place to ask ;)

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-11-14, 2:06

See on laul, kui on kutsunud Natuke. See on laulnud Quattro poolt. (sorry for this if it is bad). Ma püüan tõlkida inglis.

--
[flag]et[/flag]
Selle tunde üle pole mul kontrolli,
proovind saada üle, kuid mu vahendid ei toimi.
On jäänud veel üks võimalus ja ma proovin,
keegi siia võiks tulla ja täita minu soovid.

Sind korra näha tahan veel, veel, veel,
igaksjuhuks natuke.
Sind korra näha tahan veel, veel, veel,
igaksjuhuks rohkem veel.

Sellest mulle ei piisa, kui vaatan sind vaid eemalt,
miks hoiad minuga vahemaad, kuidas nii suudad.
Miks minust mööda kõnnid sa, mida kõike see tähendab,
see minu tundeid ei vähenda, miks pole sind siin lähedal.

Sind korra näha tahan veel, veel, veel,
igaksjuhuks natuke kuid mu vahendid ei toimi
Sind korra näha tahan veel, veel, veel,
igaksjuhuks rohkem veel. (3x)

--
[flag]en[/flag]
I do not have control over your feelings
I try to get over it but my methods won't work
I am left once more in power and I try
Someone could come here and want to meet me

I want to see you again, again, again
Just in case my methods* won't work a little longer
I want to see you again, again, again
Just in case once more

I have not enough from you, if you look at me from a distance
Why keep distance from me which you can(? wtf)
Why do you walk away from me, mida kõike see tähendab (no idea)
This does not lessen my feelings that you are here to leave(?)

...

*(this sounds funny, i get what it wants to say but don't know how to put it in english)

---
I tried my best to convey the meaning, but I think I'm way out. If someone can explain the relevant points to me I'd be happy :)

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby Loiks » 2009-11-15, 15:37

はしさん wrote:See on laul, kui on kutsunud Natuke. See on laulnud Quattro poolt. (sorry for this if it is bad). Ma püüan tõlkida inglis.

--
[flag]et[/flag]
Selle tunde üle pole mul kontrolli,
proovindsaada üle, kuid mu vahendid ei toimi.
On jäänud veel üks võimalus ja ma proovin,
keegi siia võiks tulla ja täita minu soovid.

Sind korra näha tahan veel, veel, veel,
igaksjuhuks natuke, kuid mu vahendid ei toimi.
Sind korra näha tahan veel, veel, veel,
igaksjuhuks rohkem veel.

Sellest mulle ei piisa, kui vaatan sind vaid eemalt,
miks hoiad minuga vahemaad, kuidas nii suudad.
Miks minust mööda kõnnid sa, mida kõike see tähendab,
see minu tundeid ei vähenda, miks pole sind siin lähedal.

Sind korra näha tahan veel, veel, veel,
igaksjuhuks natuke kuid mu vahendid ei toimi
Sind korra näha tahan veel, veel, veel,
igaksjuhuks rohkem veel. (3x)

--
[flag]en[/flag]
I do not have control over this feeling
I've tried to get over it but my methods won't work
I am left one more chance and I try
Someone could come here and make my wishes come true

I want to see you once again, again, again
Just in case a little bit but my methods don't work
I want to see you once again, again, again
Just in case even more

It is not enough for me, if I look at you only from a distance
Why do you keep distance from me, how can you do it?
Why do you pass me, what does it all mean?
This does not lessen my feelings, why are you not close to me?


No worries, it was very nicely done. :)

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby hashi » 2009-11-15, 22:50

Tänan!

Did the Estonian before my translation make sense too o_O If so I'm mightily impressed :)

I've now done another exercise of Colloquial Estonian (I got the book finally the other day! No more pdfs!)

Exercise 7... translate to estonian.

1. I lived in Rakvere
Ma elasin Rakveres
2. She rang Pärnu
Ta helistas Pärnu
3. The boy waited a long time
Poiss ootas pikk kord?
4. The film was nice, and very interesting too
Film oli hea ja ka väga huvitav
5. The journey was long, about 7 hours
sõit oli pikk, umbes seitse tundi
6. I travelled by bus from Tallinn to Kohtla-Järve
Ma sõidasin bussiga Tallinnast Kohtla-Järvesse
7. Do you think the coffee was good?
Kas kahv oli su meelest hea?

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Re: Eesti Keel - mrhashimoto

Postby s4nder » 2009-11-16, 13:05

2. She rang Pärnu
Ta helistas Pärnusse

3. The boy waited a long time
Poiss ootas kaua

6. I travelled by bus from Tallinn to Kohtla-Järve
Ma sõitsin bussiga Tallinnast Kohtla-Järvele

7. Do you think the coffee was good?
Kas kohv oli su meelest hea?


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