Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Moderator: aaakknu

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-11, 0:13

Naava wrote:Do you happen to know if käba / koklane means these things, too? Or is it just those wooden... things? :lol: What would you call these and those wooden ones in English? I found the word 'bobber' and 'cork' but I'm not sure what's the difference.


I think that käba and koklane refer only the wooden ones, because the definition for käba in the EKSS dictionary is võrgu ülaserva kinnitatav männikoorest, kasetohust v. puust ujuk, mis hoiab püünist põhja langemast, pull. (And in VMS the definition of koklane is käba). So they are the same and can be made from bark or wood, but not plastic.
Other words in Estonian:
ujuk / võrguujuk (the most general word; made of anything; word related to ujuma 'to swim')
võrgukäba / pull (I believe that both of these also only refer to those made of bark or wood)
kork / õngekork / korkujuk (made of cork or a similar soft material)
Those with võrgu would be used with nets (võrguujuk, võrgukäba), those with õnge would be used with fishing lines (õngekork).

In English the words bobber and cork are both used, as well as the word float. Technically cork should be made of cork or a similar soft material like foam (styrofoam). Bobbers are usually round (rather than long and thin) and should be visible above the water because they are meant to "bob" on the surface of the water. So, they often plastic and brightly colored. And floats can be anything that floats in the water.
I think the three words in English are often used interchangeably (at least by people who don't known the difference, and since I do not fish, I am one of those people!) Likewise I'm not sure whether the Estonian words can be used in a more general sense than what I've described; I'm just going by the definitions and etymologies there too.

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-13, 17:29

A nice mix of standard Estonian, Saaremaa dialect and a bit of English:
(Saaremaa dialect influence: some lengthened vowels like laadna; õ pronounced as ö)
Rulli Rulli Rulli by Öed (Kristel Aaslaid & Tuuli Rand)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXpOFMKYYuU

► Show Spoiler

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-17, 4:51

A long one: Naised, naised by Naised Köögis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv_xZp2_iCM

Does anyone know how you would translate täna õhtul purustame raamid? They are breaking frames, destroying boundaries. Does it refer to not following the expectations others have of them, not following a traditional role, not fitting stereotypes? Is raamid purustama a phrase created by the writer of the song to express this idea, or is it used more widely?

► Show Spoiler

Prantsis
Posts: 281
Joined: 2016-11-02, 15:32
Gender: male
Location: France

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Prantsis » 2018-10-18, 20:11

Linguaphile wrote:Does anyone know how you would translate täna õhtul purustame raamid? They are breaking frames, destroying boundaries. Does it refer to not following the expectations others have of them, not following a traditional role, not fitting stereotypes? Is raamid purustama a phrase created by the writer of the song to express this idea, or is it used more widely?

I understand raame purustama more or less the same way as you do. I think that raam is frequently used in a figurative way and can be combined with many verbs: raami(de)st väljuma, raami(de)st vabanema, raami/e ületama, raami(de)sse mahtuma, raami(de)sse surutud olema... EKSS has an example of raame purustama in purustama's article.

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-19, 5:10

Prantsis wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Does anyone know how you would translate täna õhtul purustame raamid? They are breaking frames, destroying boundaries. Does it refer to not following the expectations others have of them, not following a traditional role, not fitting stereotypes? Is raamid purustama a phrase created by the writer of the song to express this idea, or is it used more widely?

I understand raame purustama more or less the same way as you do. I think that raam is frequently used in a figurative way and can be combined with many verbs: raami(de)st väljuma, raami(de)st vabanema, raami/e ületama, raami(de)sse mahtuma, raami(de)sse surutud olema... EKSS has an example of raame purustama in purustama's article.

Thanks! Where did you find those expressions? Whatever your source was, I think I need it. :D I didn't find any of those. (I even somehow missed the example in EKSS, though.) But now that I have your list of expressions, I can google them and find tons of examples.
Me oleme muutunud julgemaks ja hakkame meid ümbritsevatest raamidest vabanema.
Kool peab traditsioonilistest raamidest väljuma.
Teema hakkab juba raamidest väljuma.
Kui mõtleks natuke enam «raamist välja» ega otsiks vabandusi ja põhjuseid, kuidas mitte teha...
Eesnime käänamine peab mahtuma eesti sõnamuutmise raamidesse.
See ei kipu tavapärase äri mõiste raamidesse mahtuma.

and so on. Looks like (in the negative) it's used for a range of ideas like not fitting the mold, thinking outside the box, breaking down barriers, breaking with tradition.

ükssakslane
Posts: 37
Joined: 2018-10-18, 14:55
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby ükssakslane » 2018-10-19, 7:34

Does anyone happen to have the lyrics to "Lõppude lõpp" (The end of ends, or more accuratelly "Finally") by JMKE? It was written for Estonia's regaining of independence in August 1991 (without deciphering "Lõpuks on Eesti vaba" I would have no idea what the song is about)

I only have a few pieces of the lyrics confirmedly deciphered:

Kui fööniksina tõusin tuhast
(When I rose from the ashes like a phoenix)

Lõpuks on Eesti vaba
(Finally Estonia is free)

On surnud ettevõtted
Ja kadunud tähede valgus (yes, tähte would be correct but he sings tähede instead)
Ja hävitud maailmavaade
Ma lõpp ja olen algus

(Companies have died
The stars' light has disappeared
The world perspective is destroyed
I am end and beginning)

Then there's a line I still haven't quite deciphered yet. It sounds like "Pika Hermannis siis....ikka pika mürgi lipp - On Pikk Hermann...still the long poisonous flag."
But that can't be. Since 1989 the tricolor flies from Pikk Hermann.

It's all very hard to decipher as the only Youtube link to the song is removed, and the song itself is very loud and fast. Plus, the singer sings very unclearly.

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-19, 13:21

ükssakslane wrote:Does anyone happen to have the lyrics to "Lõppude lõpp" (The end of ends, or more accuratelly "Finally") by JMKE? It was written for Estonia's regaining of independence in August 1991 (without deciphering "Lõpuks on Eesti vaba" I would have no idea what the song is about)

I only have a few pieces of the lyrics confirmedly deciphered:

Kui fööniksina tõusin tuhast
(When I rose from the ashes like a phoenix)

Lõpuks on Eesti vaba
(Finally Estonia is free)

On surnud ettevõtted
Ja kadunud tähede valgus (yes, tähte would be correct but he sings tähede instead)
Ja hävitud maailmavaade
Ma lõpp ja olen algus

(Companies have died
The stars' light has disappeared
The world perspective is destroyed
I am end and beginning)

Then there's a line I still haven't quite deciphered yet. It sounds like "Pika Hermannis siis....ikka pika mürgi lipp - On Pikk Hermann...still the long poisonous flag."
But that can't be. Since 1989 the tricolor flies from Pikk Hermann.

It's all very hard to decipher as the only Youtube link to the song is removed, and the song itself is very loud and fast. Plus, the singer sings very unclearly.

Ma ei tunne seda laulu. Kas sul on mõni link, millest me saame seda kuulata?

ükssakslane
Posts: 37
Joined: 2018-10-18, 14:55
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby ükssakslane » 2018-10-19, 14:35

See on ju keeruline osa. Ainus video selle lauluga eemaldati YouTube'ist.

Ent on mul veel seda laulu oma iPodil. Kas on kuidagi võimalik MP3-faili linkida? Siis võiksin ma teid seda näitama. Muidu

ükssakslane
Posts: 37
Joined: 2018-10-18, 14:55
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby ükssakslane » 2018-10-19, 15:48

Siin on sõnad. Kõik, kusjuures ma ebakindel olen, kirjutasin rasvase kirjaga. Ehk teab keegi, kes tunneb eesti ajaloost veelgi paremini kui mina, kuidas see laul tõesti käib:

Viit Tallinna rahvas puhas, ma üksinda siia jäi
Kui fööniksina tõusin tuhast, ja tühja tänava jäi
Ja kisad oma erendusi
Lõpuks on...omaette
...oma... ja laensid mina kätte
Laensid kätte

Lõpuks on Eesti vaba,
Lõpuks vaba nagu lind
Lõpuks vabastan
Ja keegi ei kepi mind

Lõpuks on Eesti vaba
Kui nõlvas lausas mõtteis
On...tud ....saba
On surnud ettevõtted
Ja väljasurnud tahted
Ja kadunud tähede valgus
Ja hävitud maailmavaade
Ma lõpp ja olen algus

Olen lõpp
Ma olen algus
Lõpp

Lõpuks on Eesti vaba,
Lõpuks vaba nagu lind
Lõpuks vabastan
Ja keegi ei kepi mind

Viit Tallinna rahvas puhas, ma üksinda siia jäi
Kui fööniksina tõusin tuhast, ja tühja tänava jäi
Pika Hermannis siis tahtis
Ikka pika mürgi lipp.
Mina punkar aga valmis
On elu jäi ka viit
Mina olen elu
Mina olen liiga viit

Lõpuks on Eesti vaba,
Lõpuks vaba nagu lind
Lõpuks vabaks saan
Ja keegi ei kepi mind

Nüüd käes on lõppude lõpp
Nüüd käes on lõppude lõpp
Nüüd käes on lõppude lõpp

Prantsis
Posts: 281
Joined: 2016-11-02, 15:32
Gender: male
Location: France

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Prantsis » 2018-10-19, 17:47

Linguaphile wrote:Thanks! Where did you find those expressions? Whatever your source was, I think I need it. :D I didn't find any of those. (I even somehow missed the example in EKSS, though.) But now that I have your list of expressions, I can google them and find tons of examples.

What can I say? :D I guess I knew what to look for in the first place. In French, raam is "cadre", raamidest väljuma is "sortir du cadre", raamidesse mahtuma is "rentrer dans le cadre", raame purustama is "briser le cadre" etc. Looking at cadre's entry in my Fr-En dictionary gives me a hint of what your problem is (as possible translations in these kinds of contexts, I find scope, remit... and also limits, bounds, confines... and also framework, context, structure...) You're right though, I've got a trick: I use Estonian text corpora first, and Google as a last resort.

ükssakslane wrote:Does anyone happen to have the lyrics to "Lõppude lõpp"
► Show Spoiler

ükssakslane
Posts: 37
Joined: 2018-10-18, 14:55
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby ükssakslane » 2018-10-19, 17:56

Kust sa seda said? Nüüd võin õnnelikuna surra. :D

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-20, 16:46

Maailm heliseb by Curly Strings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTv3wWQDDgQ

► Show Spoiler

ükssakslane
Posts: 37
Joined: 2018-10-18, 14:55
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby ükssakslane » 2018-10-20, 17:49

Meie Mees - Made in SSSR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPfJ7rRxLWk

These guys are famous for their covers of English songs. Skip to 1:55 to see what it's a cover of.

Again, lyrics are lacking but I would love to know them. So far I got:

Leidsin riiulis plaadi puhast vene estraadi
Meenus mul kauge aeg
Olid keerukoda ja olid sarnased majad
Soome käis vaid üks laev

Lauldi ülistuslaule, hüüdi totakaid lauseid
Olid normid ja plaanid, kui ka lipuparaadi

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR

Tutvustega defitsiit kõik ja meid saatis
Vaene ja veider raha
...viina, suitsuks Ekstra või Priima
Oh, ... helge aeg

Sõitsin Mossed ja Ladad, kuigi neidki on saadav
Saaremaale vaid lastis, kul näitasid passi...

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR

Suitsusid korstnaga...poed olid...
Ees ootas helge aeg
Olid toidu... järjekorraga...
Kaua see meelde jääb

Vahest lubatud tulla Rootsi sugulast külla
Siis sai näpsu ja traati
Suka (Eesti sukadega vist midagi tegemist, vaid hoopis vene: сука) üks(k)i banaani...

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-20, 20:29

ükssakslane wrote:Meie Mees - Made in SSSR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPfJ7rRxLWk

These guys are famous for their covers of English songs. Skip to 1:55 to see what it's a cover of.

Again, lyrics are lacking but I would love to know them. So far I got:


My changes in red. You can see by all of my question marks, that I'm not sure about them. I also marked a few places with question marks where I think what you have written is not what they are saying, but I'm not sure yet what they are saying there. I will listen to it again later and see if I can figure out some of the questions marks (don't have time right now). Also, of course, the blue parts are Russian and I don't know what they're saying in the missing part there.


Leidsin riiulis plaadi puhast vene estraadi
Meenus mul kauge aeg
Olid keerukad ajad, olid sarnased majad
Soome käis vaid üks laev

Lauldi ülistuslaule, hüüdi totakaid lauseid
Olid normid ja plaanid, kui ka :?: kuna :?: lipuparaadi

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR

Tutvustega :?: defitsiit kõik ja meid saatis
Vaene ja veider aeg
Aeti ketšupist :?: viina, suitsuks Ekstra või Priima
Oh, sina :?: helge aeg

Sõitsin Mossed ja Ladad, kuigi neidki on saadav
Saaremaale vaid lastis, kul :?: näitasid passi...

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR

Suitsusid korstnad aga poed olid tühjad
Ees ootas helge aeg
Olid toidutalongid, järjekorrad ja sihvkad :?:
Kaua see meelde jääb

Vahest lubatud tulla Rootsi sugulast külla
Siis sai näpsu ja traati
Suka püksi ja :?: banaani...

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR

ükssakslane
Posts: 37
Joined: 2018-10-18, 14:55
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby ükssakslane » 2018-10-20, 21:31

Aargh! I thought I heard "kuna" but I dismissed it because "There were norms and plans due to the flag parade" made no sense.
(Ega ma ju ei mängi teie närvidel, kogu aeg Eesti laulutekstidest küsides?)

User avatar
Naava
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 1095
Joined: 2012-01-17, 20:24
Gender: female
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Naava » 2018-10-20, 21:53

Linguaphile wrote:Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR

I'm not very good at Russian, but I think it's сделано в СССР (sdelano v SSSR; made in the SSSR).

Linguaphile wrote:Tutvustega :?: defitsiit kõik ja meid saatis

I hear it as tutvused ja defitsiit kõikjal. :hmm:

Sõitsin Mossed ja Ladad, kuigi neidki on saadav

Could this be sõitsid? It's hard to hear what he sings but imo it'd make more sense because both Mosse and Lada are car models.

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-20, 22:08

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, ya vam...v SSSR

I'm not very good at Russian, but I think it's сделано в СССР (sdelano v SSSR; made in the SSSR).

Linguaphile wrote:Tutvustega :?: defitsiit kõik ja meid saatis

I hear it as tutvused ja defitsiit kõikjal. :hmm:

I was hearing -sed ja... and wasn't sure whether the first part was tutvus or something else. But I'm not sure I understand what it means that way (are the acquaintances doing the sending? Acquaintances and shortages sent us everywhere? And if that's the case, why is saatis singular?) :hmm:
Your Russian translation seems right. I heard the е and но in it, but didn't know enough to make it into a word. Yours sounds right and makes perfect sense.

I think I figured out this line:
Saaremaale vaid lasti siis, kui näitasid passi.

And I forgot to change this one earlier:
Vahest lubati tulla Rootsi sugulast külla



So now we have:

Leidsin riiulis plaadi puhast vene estraadi
Meenus mul kauge aeg
Olid keerukad ajad, olid sarnased majad
Soome käis vaid üks laev

Lauldi ülistuslaule, hüüdi totakaid lauseid
Olid normid ja plaanid, kuna :?: lipuparaadi

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, сделано в СССР.
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, сделано в СССР.

Tutvused :?: ja defitsiit kõikjal meid saatis
Vaene ja veider aeg
Aeti ketšupist :?: viina, suitsuks Ekstra või Priima
Oh, sina :?: helge aeg

Sõitsid Mossed ja Ladad, kuigi neidki on saadav
Saaremaale vaid lasti siis, kui näitasid passi.

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, сделано в СССР.
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, сделано в СССР.

Suitsusid korstnad aga poed olid tühjad
Ees ootas helge aeg
Olid toidutalongid, järjekorrad ja sihvkad :?:
Kaua see meelde jääb

Vahest lubati tulla Rootsi sugulast külla
Siis sai näpsu ja traati
Suka püksi ja :?: banaani.

Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, сделано в СССР.
Sündisin ma NSV Liidus, сделано в СССР.
Last edited by Linguaphile on 2018-10-20, 22:16, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Naava
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 1095
Joined: 2012-01-17, 20:24
Gender: female
Country: FI Finland (Suomi)

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Naava » 2018-10-20, 22:11

Linguaphile wrote:
I hear it as tutvused ja defitsiit kõikjal. :hmm:

I was hearing -sed ja... and wasn't sure whether the first part was tutvus or something else. But I'm not sure I understand what it means that way (are the acquaintances doing the sending? Acquaintances and shortages sent us everywhere? And if that's the case, why is saatis singular?) :hmm:

I thought it was vaene ja veider aeg saatis meid.

Prantsis
Posts: 281
Joined: 2016-11-02, 15:32
Gender: male
Location: France

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Prantsis » 2018-10-20, 22:36

A few more corrections:

Lauldi ülistuslaule, hüüti totakaid lauseid
Olid normid ja plaanid, punalipud, paraadid
[...]
Oh sina helde aeg
[...]
Suitsesid
[...]
Siis sai näpsu ja traati, sukapükse, banaani

Linguaphile
Posts: 2318
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Eesti muusika / Estonian music

Postby Linguaphile » 2018-10-20, 22:54

Naava wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:
I hear it as tutvused ja defitsiit kõikjal. :hmm:

I was hearing -sed ja... and wasn't sure whether the first part was tutvus or something else. But I'm not sure I understand what it means that way (are the acquaintances doing the sending? Acquaintances and shortages sent us everywhere? And if that's the case, why is saatis singular?) :hmm:

I thought it was vaene ja veider aeg saatis meid.

:shock: Oh yeah, I got it now. Reavahetused ajasid mind segadusse - the line breaks confused me there.

ükssakslane wrote:(Ega ma ju ei mängi teie närvidel, kogu aeg Eesti laulutekstidest küsides?)

Üldse mitte. Ma naudin seda. See on hea viis eesti keele harjutamiseks; mulle meeldivad sellised asjad.

Prantsis wrote:A few more corrections


Here's the current version with the latest corrections from the posts above. (And I'm removing the question marks, both because we solved some of them, and because they are all in red text anyway.) Nice teamwork, by the way! :D
► Show Spoiler


Return to “Estonian (Eesti keel)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest