Kasutama või Tarvitama

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Joseph2006
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Kasutama või Tarvitama

Postby Joseph2006 » 2006-08-29, 12:44

Dear Estonian friends,

As in the other topic I started, could you please use these two verbs (kasutama, tarvitama) in a sentence or two? My dictionaries say "to use" for both verbs. I need help distinguishing shades of meaning.

As far as I can tell, "tarvitama" has more of a sense of to consume. Please let me know if my thinking is accurate. :idea:

Thanks! :D

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Postby Ada H. » 2006-08-29, 16:07

Popstaar tarvitab alkoholi ja antidepressante.
Põder tarvitab toiduks oksi.
See auto tarvitab küllalt palju kütust.

Noored kasutavad koolitöös arvutit.
Neiu kasutab palju kosmeetikat.
Inimene kasutab 10% oma ajust.
Maainimesed kasutavad ühistransporti.

Tarvitama seems indeed to be closer to "to consume", kasutama to "to use, to utilize". Actually, what is now Tarbijate Ühistu (Consumers' Co-operative), used to be called Tarvitajate Ühisus in the 1930s. However tarbima and tarvitama are not 100% interchangable. Today, I would say, tarvitama is most often used in the context of drugs or alcohol consumption.

tarvitama - to use, to consume
tarbima - to consume
tarbija - consumer
tarve - need; requisite
energiatarve - energy demand
energia tarbimine - energy consumption
majatarbed - household items
otstarve - purpose
tarbetu - unnecessary
kuritarvitama - to abuse

kasu - gain, utility
kasulik - useful
kasutu - useless
kasutama - to use
kasutaja - user
kasum - profit

See also: http://www.cl.ut.ee/ressursid/teksaurus/

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eurooplane
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Postby eurooplane » 2006-09-16, 9:36

Ada H. wrote:kasu - gain, utility
kasulik - useful
kasutu - useless
kasutama - to use
kasutaja - user
kasum - profit
Ok.
If I understand, estonian people think that a kasuvend is a useful brother… :)

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Postby Ada H. » 2006-09-17, 7:56

eurooplane wrote:If I understand, estonian people think that a kasuvend is a useful brother


Nah, we're not that bad :)
kasu in this case is related to kasv(a(ta)ma).

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Postby eurooplane » 2006-09-17, 12:06

Ma olin kõhklev… :wink:
Aga lõpuks, te olete vähem kuri kui meid siis, kuna prantsuse keeles, me ütleme « the half of a brother » (un demi-frère).
Ei ole kogu venda !
Eesti keel on vähem alandav õel/vennal.:)

Finally, you’re not so bad than us then, since we say « the half of a brother » ! Not an entire brother.

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Postby Loiks » 2006-09-18, 16:26

But what about poolõde/poolvend? It's when you share one of the parents, kasu is when you don't share neither.

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Postby eurooplane » 2006-09-18, 18:12

Loiks wrote:But what about poolõde/poolvend? It's when you share one of the parents, kasu is when you don't share neither.
Thank you for your remark, cause I believed kasuõde/-vend was when you share one of the parents.
And do you have words for fraternal twins / identical twins ?

----
My last post doesn’t have mistake ??

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Postby Loiks » 2006-09-19, 15:58

eurooplane wrote:Ma olin kõhklev… :wink:
Aga lõpuks, te olete vähem kuri kui meid siis, kuna prantsuse keeles, me ütleme « the half of a brother » (un demi-frère).
Ei ole kogu venda !
Eesti keel on vähem alandav õel/vennal.:)

Finally, you’re not so bad than us then, since we say « the half of a brother » ! Not an entire brother.


OK, the corrections then :):

Ma kõhklesin. Aga lõpuks, te pole nii kurjad siis kui meie, sest prantsuse keeles me ütleme "un demi-frère". Ei ole tervet venda! Eesti keel ei ole nii alandav õe/venna suhtes.

Btw, there is a word õel 'mean, evil'. So, are the sisters evil then? :) Just a joke :).

Twins are kaksikud.

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Postby eurooplane » 2006-09-29, 18:45

Loiks wrote:So, are the sisters evil then? :).
Hehe, maybe... well in fact, I cannot answere since I don't have sister. Do you think they are? :D
Loiks wrote:Ei ole tervet venda!.
What are the differences between terve, kogu and täielik?

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Postby Loiks » 2006-09-30, 10:05

eurooplane wrote:
Loiks wrote:So, are the sisters evil then? :).
Hehe, maybe... well in fact, I cannot answere since I don't have sister. Do you think they are? :D
Loiks wrote:Ei ole tervet venda!.
What are the differences between terve, kogu and täielik?


No, sisters are not evil, at least mine is not :).

From the dictionary:

terve - whole
kogu - all, whole
täielik - full, complete, entire, total

Maybe I'd put it this way: if you have two halves and you put them together you get terve. Kogu is used for people and country for instance: kogu rahvas, kogu maa; but you can also say terve rahvas, terve maa. But you can't say kogu õun. Well, it's understood but... bad style to my ear. Täielik - nothing misses of the entity. You can say: sa oled täielik idioot! 'you're a complete idiot!' :) Then there's also kõik. Kõik : kõigi for living things, kõik : kõige for not living. Kogu/terve rahvas = kõik inimesed.

Bad explanation, I know :D.

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Aitäh

Postby Joseph2006 » 2006-10-25, 20:08

Ma tänan. Your explanation about

terve
kogu
täielik

was very helpful. :)

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Re: Kasutama või Tarvitama

Postby tunguuz » 2008-12-31, 11:37

An old thread but some concepts were not yet explained to depth.

:idea:

In addition to tarvitama and kasutama there is a (dialect?) word pruukima which means to use/consume occasionally. There is such an idiom like vägijooke pruukima which is very politely said on an entrance level of alcoholism. Vägi is the power, the Force (in jedi sense), and even the army (but it's not relevant here). Jook is the drink. There is some deep word game herein because while alcohol makes you feel powerful, another word from the same root is vägivald which mean the violence.

Müüa pruugitud teler means the second hand TV-set is on sale. Pruugitud tütarlaps is actually the (colloq.) opposite to the virgin. Tütar means and probably is derived from root daughter, laps is the child and tütar+laps is the girl or young lady.

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

What Ada H said, seems to be right. See a dialect citation from http://haldjas.folklore.ee/~aado/maailm/norkuu.htm
Vahtsõ kuugõ vaja vili kül'vä, mis maa pääl kasus.

It basically proves that in dialects, kasvama (to grow) was kasuma. While it is not exluded kasv (growth) and kasu (use/fulness/) are from the same origin, there are other explanations below.

Once upon a time when nobelmen lived at manors and simple people lived at "farms" (I see no better match for talu (grange? homestead?).... Actually it was a lifestyle when farmer had 8-10 children in family. This way, every pair of hands was extremely valuable. In certain cases, additional childs were adopted with the purpose of having yet more working hands at the farm. Because these children worked mainly for food and living and the father of the family had no obligations regarding the dowery, these children were USEFUL economically. Hence the word kasulaps - kasu+laps - use(ful) + child. This concept probably was popular in 1700-1900. Seems weird but do not forget what happened in USA these times... who did all the dirtywork. In Estonia peasants had 90% literacy level already in 18xx, including these useful childs ;)

Then, when you lived together with these useful childs, it was quite normal to refer them as useful+brothers and useful+sisters. Well, maybe not directly like kasulaps, tule siia! - come here, useful child - but indirectly like Mul on üks kasuvend ja kaks kasuõde - I have 1 useful bothers and 2 useful sisters. Now, to continue with the concept, kasuvanemad, kasuisa ja kasuema respectively are useful+parents, useful+father and useful+mother for the useful+child - people which helped the child (could it be it lost his own parents?!) with the purpose of own economical use. But, in accordance with what what Ada H said, it could be that kasuma simply meant - to grow up (in another family).

In parallel, there are more negative words like võõrasisa and võõrasema - which generally mean stepfather and stepmother respectively, but there are two problems here. First, võõras means foreign (engl) or Fremd- (German) and is of cleary negative colour. The second problem is, with Estonian võõrasema it is not required that the father should be genuine. It could be that both father and mother are gone and e.g. the aunt's family is raising the child. Then, very naturally, the aunt is võõrasema.

To certain extent, kasuisa, kasuema are interchangable with võõrasisa, võõrasema but while the first pair is much more politely said, the latter has a clear negative meaning (at least in fairy-tales võõrasema is always bad and nasty).

In modern Estonia, where not more than 50% marriages last long, poolvend is your half+brother i.e. you have one common parent and poolõde is accordingly your half+sister. However, it is not too polite to stress this halfness to public. If necessary, you could explain the nuances later (about who exactly is the father and mother for each child in the family).

And to fix this concept with a joke - there is a famous Estonian singer Uno Loop. Please spell his name backwards and you get pool+onu i.e. half-uncle ;)

The adoption in Estonia is usually carried out so that the child will not know it's past. But as the rule (because Estonia is a very small country), at age 16-18 they all get the information from somewhere ;)


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