Linguaphile's thread for word sets

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Linguaphile
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Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-27, 16:13

ammu long ago (ety. *ammo, *oma "old, previous")
ammugi more than sufficiently, surely; long ago (i.e. võlg on ammugi tasutud)
ei ammugi much less; far from (i.e. seda ta ei tea sina, ammugi siis tema)
ammugi mitte not in the least; by no means (i.e. seda ta ei tea ammugi mitte)
ammutuntud long known; old

ammutama 1 to take a small amount of liquid from a larger quantity; to scoop or draw a liquid; to extract
ammutama 2 to get, to obtain; to derive
ammendama to exhaust; to use up; to suck dry (ety. ammutama)
ammendamatu inexhaustible
ammendavalt exhaustively, completely
anum receptacle, vessel, dish (ety. *ammun, consonants switched)

ammuli wide open, agape, gaping (related to words meaning "yawn" cf. Livonian amtlõ and "moo" cf. Est. below)
ammukil wide open, agape, open-mouthed (same ety. as above)
ammuma (ammun 1) (ammub) to moo, to bellow, to low (onomatopoeia)
ammutama 3 to be wide open; to open wide (ety. ammuli)

ambuma (ammun 2) to shoot with a bow and arrow (ety. amb 'bow, crossbow')
ambur archor, bowman

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Naava
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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Naava » 2021-03-27, 17:39

Linguaphile wrote:ammu . . .

These also exist in Finnish with the same meanings (I'll use the MA infitinitives here):

ammu - ammoin
ammutama - ammentama (this is also a false friend with ammendama)
ammuli - ammollaan
ammuma - ammuma (ammun, ammuu)
ammuttama - ammottama
ambuma - ampuma (ammun, ampuu)

I think it's interesting how Estonian has always U, but Finnish has sometimes O, sometimes U. :)

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-27, 18:44

Naava wrote:ammutama - ammentama (this is also a false friend with ammendama)

The false friend is interesting, because the word ammendama is a Finnish loan from the language reform period. As I understand it, it's a variation of ammutama made by creating an Estonianized version of Finnish ammentaa.
This is how ETY explained it:
ammendama : ammendada : ammendan 'täielikult ära kulutama, lõpuni ära kasutama, tühjaks ammutama; hankima, saama, endasse koguma'
soome ammentaa 'ammutada, tõsta; ammendada'
Laenatud kirjakeelde keeleuuenduse ajal. Soome allikas on tuletis ammutama tüvest.

ammutama : ammutada : ammutan 'suuremast hulgast vedelikust vm vähemat hulka välja tõstma; hankima, endasse koguma'
soome ammentaa 'ammutada, tõsta; ammendada', VAN SRMT ammultaa, ammuntaa 'ammutada, tõsta'

Though they say that one of the meanings of Finnish ammentaa is ammendama.
SES says that Estonian ammendama is a figurative meaning of Finnish ammentaa and suggests tyhjentää as the literal translation.
Does this sound correct for Finnish? SES doesn't give any examples of the figurative meaning so I'm not entirely sure what the context would be.
In any case, Finnish ammenta(m)a seems to have been the inspiration for Estonian ammendama even though its usage in Estonian is different.

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Naava » 2021-03-27, 19:29

Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:ammutama - ammentama (this is also a false friend with ammendama)

The false friend is interesting, because the word ammendama is a Finnish loan from the language reform period.

Oooooh! :o Cool!

Though they say that one of the meanings of Finnish ammentaa is ammendama.
SES says that Estonian ammendama is a figurative meaning of Finnish ammentaa and suggests tyhjentää as the literal translation.
Does this sound correct for Finnish? SES doesn't give any examples of the figurative meaning so I'm not entirely sure what the context would be.

No idea what that figurative meaning could be. Maybe they wanted to say it's an exaggeration or not-very-literal loan? I can see a connection between scooping something and exhausting something.

I tried to check if there's some meaning of ammentaa that I've never heard of, but both Finnish and English wiktionaries confirm what I already knew: it means 1) (transitive) to scoop, draw, ladle 2) (transitive) to gain benefit or influences. Nothing about exhausting here, but tyhjentää is pretty close indeed! It's 'to empty, to exhaust' (from tyhjä, 'empty').

Unless... Could the figurative sense of ammendama be the 2nd meaning of ammentaa? Is it ever used that way? :hmm:

//edit: I just learnt that ammentaa comes from the same root as amme, 'bathtub, tub', which in turn is derived from Proto-Finno-Ugric *ama-.

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-27, 21:13

Naava wrote:No idea what that figurative meaning could be. Maybe they wanted to say it's an exaggeration or not-very-literal loan? I can see a connection between scooping something and exhausting something.

It's really got me curious, but I can't find much in the way of an explanation. My search repeatedly kept bringing me back to citations from one or the other of the same two sources: ETY and SES, both from Eesti Keele Instituut.
I did find something else interesting though. Here the author says that ammendama belongs to a "very small" (!) "class of verbs which only take total objects... possibly limited to only ammendama ‘exhaust’."
They also mention andestama as a possible other one although they kind of dismiss it; the Eesti keele käsiraamat confirms that andestama belongs there too ("Leidub ka üksikuid verbe, nagu ammendama ja andestama, mis väljendavad seda, et tegevus on teostumiseni jõudnud, ning millel seetõttu saab olla ainult täissihitis").
I don't think these two sources contradict each other in any way because, while the first one says native speakers "readily accept clauses such as example (2.4), with andestama taking a partial object", Eesti keele käsiraamat cites Ta andestas mulle *solvamist as an error. They wouldn't cite it as an error, or need to, if no native speakers every said it, and the point of the handbook is to correct such things. :mrgreen:

Naava wrote://edit: I just learnt that ammentaa comes from the same root as amme, 'bathtub, tub', which in turn is derived from Proto-Finno-Ugric *ama-.

That's quite cool, especially since the only way to connect Estonian anum etymologically to ammendama or the other related words is through other cognates in related languages, like Finnish. It seems that (theoretically) an earlier form was *am(m)un and then the consonants were swapped, to anum.
I'm not sure what evidence there is for that earlier *am(m)un form but I've seen that same sort of consonant-swapping metathesis elsewhere, like suusk/suksi ("ski") in Estonian/Finnish and täsni/násti ("star") in different varieties of Saami.

Prantsis

Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Prantsis » 2021-03-28, 5:41

Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:No idea what that figurative meaning could be. Maybe they wanted to say it's an exaggeration or not-very-literal loan? I can see a connection between scooping something and exhausting something.

It's really got me curious, but I can't find much in the way of an explanation.

I know nothing about Finnish, but since this word appeared during the language renovation, maybe it could be relevant that the pair ammutama/ammendama matches quite well the French puiser/épuiser and, it seems too, the German schöpfen/erschöpfen.

Linguaphile wrote: Here the author says that ammendama belongs to a "very small" (!) "class of verbs which only take total objects... possibly limited to only ammendama ‘exhaust’."

Here's an example with ammendama and a partial object:

Kasvaval tarbimisloogikal rajanev tööstusühiskond on ammendamas seda vundamenti, millele ta toetub – looduslikud energiaallikad, eriti toornafta, saavad praeguste arengutrendide jätkudes peagi otsa. (Source: Müürileht)

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-28, 7:13

Prantsis wrote:
Linguaphile wrote:
Naava wrote:No idea what that figurative meaning could be. Maybe they wanted to say it's an exaggeration or not-very-literal loan? I can see a connection between scooping something and exhausting something.

It's really got me curious, but I can't find much in the way of an explanation.

I know nothing about Finnish, but since this word appeared during the language renovation, maybe it could be relevant that the pair ammutama/ammendama matches quite well the French puiser/épuiser and, it seems too, the German schöpfen/erschöpfen.

Yes, I agree. Many of Aavik's words fill in a perceived "gap" where Estonian didn't have a one-word lexeme for something that other languages expressed with a single word, and he tried to stick to Finnic roots most of the time. So he could have been influenced by French or German and still used a Finnish root; that happened often. What's surprising is that this one is a Finnish loan, and yet the Finnish word it supposedly comes from is a false friend that doesn't share its meaning. Like, how did that happen? Or why? It's not like there was a natural shift in meaning because it's not a naturally-created word.

Prantsis wrote:
Linguaphile wrote: Here the author says that ammendama belongs to a "very small" (!) "class of verbs which only take total objects... possibly limited to only ammendama ‘exhaust’."

Here's an example with ammendama and a partial object:

Kasvaval tarbimisloogikal rajanev tööstusühiskond on ammendamas seda vundamenti, millele ta toetub – looduslikud energiaallikad, eriti toornafta, saavad praeguste arengutrendide jätkudes peagi otsa. (Source: Müürileht)

I don't know how you search for an example like that and find it so quickly. I didn't even look for examples but if I had might have looked for "ammendab" or "ammendas" and some common noun or wildcard, but such a search wouldn't have turned up your example, with "ammendamas". Search engine wizardry?
With the -mas form it is in progress and not completed, so partial object. Seems like in Estonian there are often rules that contradict and override other rules... "This verb always requires a total object. This construction always requires a partial object. Oops, did we say always? Now we'll really mess with you by putting them both together in same sentence and let them fight it out* blithely break one of those rules we've taught you, in order to follow the other one."

*And the winner is... the -mas form and its partial object. Yay -mas form!

Prantsis

Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Prantsis » 2021-03-28, 13:00

Linguaphile wrote:Seems like in Estonian there are often rules that contradict and override other rules... "This verb always requires a total object. This construction always requires a partial object. Oops, did we say always? Now we'll really mess with you by putting them both together in same sentence and let them fight it out* blithely break one of those rules we've taught you, in order to follow the other one."

*And the winner is... the -mas form and its partial object. Yay -mas form!

:D

No wizardry, I looked precisely for "ammendamas".

That a verb always requires a total object cannot really be an absolute rule. Firstly, I think it can only mean: in a positive sentence with an object in singular (so in my opinion, her counterexample 2.4 in your previous post doesn't really show anything). But even then, it would be similar to saying that there are some "punctual" verbs in English that can never have the progressive/continuous aspect. Well, maybe it is particularly unlikely to happen with a handful of verbs, but does that make it ungrammatical in all circumstances? You just need the right context.
Actually the two rules are not competing: saying "this verb always requires a total object" is the same as saying "this verb wouldn't make any sense in the -mas form".
Depending on authors, other candidates may include annetama (to donate), or algatama (to initiate)...

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-28, 17:40

Prantsis wrote:looked precisely for "ammendamas"

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Continuing with word sets:

jää 1 ice
jäätama to freeze, to ice
jäätuma to freeze, to be iced over
jäik inflexible, rigid, erect
jäigastama to stiffen (trans.), to starch
jäigastuma to stiffen (intrans.), to become stiff
(ety. *jää/*jäŋe "ice")

jäama to remain, to stay, to be left
jää 2 stay! (2s imperative of jääma); not stay (negative of jääma)
jääk the rest, the remainder, residue
jäädvustama to perpetuate, immortalized, record
jääde (jäätme) refuse, waste
jäde vestige, rudiment
(ety. *jäädäk "to stay, remain" from *jää/*jäŋe "ice")

jätma to leave
jätke 1 leave! (2p imperative)
jäetud left (tud-participle of jätma)
(ety. *jättädäk "to leave [something somewhere] from *jäädäk "to stay, remain" from *jää/*jäŋe "ice")

jätk continuation, sequel
jätkama to continue, to proceed, to carry forward
jätkuma to continue, to last, to hold out
jätkutama to prolong, to make last; to ration so that something is sufficient
jätke 2 appendage, endpiece
(ety. *jatkadak "to continue, go on; lengthen, extend")

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-03-31, 23:07

harju- & hari-
hari brush, comb, ridge, crest
harima educate, cultivate, civilize
haridus education
harilik common, ordinary, usual
harinema become accustomed to, get used to
harjuma become accustomed to, get used to
harjumus habit
harjutama to practice, to exercise
harjutus exercise, rehearsal
(ety. *harja, proto IE *ḱeres)

haru- 1 & har(e)v-
harv infrequent, rare, uncommon, sparse, scant
harva infrequently, rarely, seldom
harvenema to thin out, to grow thin, to be thinned
harvendama to thin, to make thinner, to rarefy
harev not dense; thin, loose
harevil not dense, not compact (see also below: haravil spread out, forked, apart)
haruldane rare, unusual, scarce
haruldus rarity, curiosity
haruharv very infrequent, very uncommon
haruharva very infrequently, very rarely, once in a blue moon
(ety. *harvoi, proto Ur *šorwa)

haru- 2 & hara-
haru branch
haruline pronged, branching
harutama to unravel
harunema to branch, to fork, to ramify
haralduma to become forked
harali spread out, forked, apart
haravil spread out, forked, apart (see also above: harevil not dense, not compact)
(ety. *hara, proto FPer *šara)

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-03, 0:56

jalg, jala-, jalu-
jalg leg, foot
jalgsi on foot
jalg-jalalt slowly, step-by-step
jala on foot
jalats shoe, footwear
jalakäija pedestrian
jalamaid at once, in short order, this instant
jaland stand (to hold or support something, i.e. a camera stand)
jalul up and about; astir
jalus 1 in someone's way
jalus 2 footer, stirrup
jaluts footboard (of a bed)
jalutama to walk
jalutlema to walk around, walk back and forth
(ety. *jalka "leg, foot")

jälg, jälje-, jäl-
jälg track, trail, print, mark, vestige, trace
jäljetult without a trace
jälil on the track of
jälitama to pursue, to track
jälgima to follow, to monitor
jäljend imprint, impression, replica
jäljendama to emulate, imitate
jälle again
(ety. *jälki "trace" likely from *jalka "leg, foot")

järg, järe-, jär-
järg row, continuation, sequel, economic situation, limit
järgne successive; according to; following
järgi according to; following
järg-järjelt gradually
järjest more and more, ever more; in sequence, in succession
järele behind, after
järelikult consequently, therefore
järeldus consequence, result
järelduma to result from, ensue
järeldama to infer, deduce
järgnema to follow, go after, come after
järjekord line, queue
järk rank, grade, stage
järsk steep, sharp, abrupt
järsku suddenly
järsak precipice, escarpment
järsand precipice, escarpment
järsandama to steepen
(ety. *järki "row, order" from *jälki "trace")
Last edited by Linguaphile on 2021-04-03, 6:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby azhong » 2021-04-03, 4:45

I do not even know where Estonia is; thus, I can just press Like by saying bravo.

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-03, 6:21

azhong wrote:I do not even know where Estonia is; thus, I can just press Like by saying bravo.

"I'm from a land called Secret Estonia
And nobody knows where it's at.
Ice cream mountains and chocolate skies,
And nobody knows where it's at."
- Kerli Kõiv, Creepshow

Image

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-10, 20:49

min-
minema to go
minek going; departure
minevik the past; past tense
minevikus in the past
minetama to forgo; to lose; to forfeit
minestama to faint; to pass out
minestuma to faint; to pass out
minestus faint, fainting fit
minetus forfeiture; losing
(ety. proto-Finnic *mendäk, proto-Uralic *mene- "to go")

men-
menetlus procedure, process, proceeding
menetlema to proceed; to process; to treat; to try (a case)
menu success
menus successful
menuk bestseller
menukas successful
menukus successfulness
menutus unsuccessfulness
menuma to succeed
(ety. language reform based on Finnish mennä "to go" from proto-Finnic *mendäk, proto-Uralic *mene- "to go")

mõn-
mõnu pleasure, enjoyment, comfort
mõnus pleasant, enjoyable, comfortable
mõnukas pleasant, enjoyable, comfortable
mõnutus unpleasantness, uncomfortableness
mõnulus enjoyment
mõnusus comfort, cosiness
mõnustus making enjoyable
mõnustama to make enjoyable to make pleasant
mõnustuma to become suitable, to become convenient
mõnulema to feel at ease, to enjoy, to luxuriate
mõnutsema to feel at ease, to enjoy, to luxuriate
(ety. earlier Estonian *mõnu "melody" from proto-Finnic *mendäk, proto-Uralic *mene- "to go")

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-17, 3:54

mäluma to chew, to masticate, to chomp
mälustama to crush; to chew well
mälustuma to be chewed
mäletsema to ruminate, to chew the cud
(ety. *mᴈr-)

mälu memory
mäletama to remember, to call to mind, to have in remembrance
mälestama to commemorate, to memorialize
mälestuma to come to mind
mäletus recall, recollection
mälestus commemoration, remembrance
mälestis memorial
(ety. unknown with cognates in Komi, Khanty, Mansi)

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-18, 17:23

määr
määr badger (Meles meles) (northern/central dialects; standard mäger)
(ety. Proto-Finnic *mäkrä ´badger', possibly from proto-Germanic *marþraz 'marten')

määr-
määrkass 1 type of monkey (Cercopithecus)
määrkass 2 dirty child
(ety. Low German; Middle High German form is merekatze; for definition 2, probably influenced both by definition 1 and the meanings of määrd-/määri- below)

määr(a)-
määr 1 degree, extent, quantity, measure, amount, norm, standard
määrama to determine, to designate, to nominate
määraja arbiter, determiner, nominator; (in compounds, i.e. linnumääraja) finder
määratlema to define, to specify
määratlus definition
määrang determination, identification, definition
määrav decisive, definite, determinative
määratamatu indeterminable
määratu 1 enormous, vast
määratu 2 appointed, designated
määrane 1 relating to degree, extent or quantity (uncommon except in compounds)
ebamäärane indeterminate, undefined
umbmäärane indefinite
ülemäärane exaggerated, excessive
(ety. Old East Slavic мѣра 'measure')

määra-
määrane 2 which, what kind
(ety. shortened form of mäherdune from Estonian mis 'what', proto-Finnic *mi + säherdune 'similar, comparable', older Estonian sarnadune 'similar, comparable', proto-Finno-Ugric *śarna 'incantation, speech')

määrd-, määri-
määrde grease, lubricant
määrdene greasy
määrduma to soil, to smudge, to stain
määrdima to soil, to smudge, to stain
määrdimatu immaculate
määrdumatu spotless
määrdunud soiled, stained, smudgy, greasy, grimy, unclean
määrima to lubricate, to oil, to smear, to smudge, to stain
määrimata unoiled, ungreased, unsoiled
määrija lubricator, dauber
määring daub
(ety. Low German smeren 'smear, grease')

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-22, 1:26

ole- verbs
olema to be
olelema to exist; to be; to subsist (-le-: continuative)
olenema to depend on; to be conditioned by (-ne-: translative)
oletama to suppose; to surmise; to assume (-ta-: causative)
oletsema to eke out a living, live in a poor way (-tse-: continuative)
olesklema to hang out, be lazy, vegetate (-skle-: frequentative non-intensive)

nouns derived from various ole- verbs: ole- + verb infix + -us
olelus existence, subsistence (from olelema)
olemus essence, gist, being, nature, content (from olema)
oletus supposition, conjecture (from oletama)
olevus creature, being (from olema)
ollus substance (from olema)

nouns derived from olema: ole- + noun-forming suffix
olek being, existence
olem entity
olend creature, being
oleng party
olev being, existing
olevik the present time
olemine being, existence
olu essence, substance, being, condition
olund state, circumstance, plight
olustik conditions, circumstances (as a group)

adjective oluline from olu-, and derivatives
oluline essential, important, critical
olulisus essentiality, relevance
oluliselt essentially, importantly, critically

two forms of ole- together in a compound word
olemasolu being, existence (olemas + olu)
olemasolek presence, availability (olemas + olek)
olemasolev present, available, extant (olemas + olev)
olemasolemine being, existence, dasein (olemas + olemine)

olm-
olme way of life, living conditions, daily life (outside of work)
olmeline everyday, mundane, banal
olmeese object of everyday use
olm truth, fact
olmne concrete, factual

(ety. from Proto-Uralic *wole- 'to be')

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-22, 21:12

ots 1 (otsa-, otse-, otsu-)
ots tip, end
otse direct, straight
otsmik forehead
otsak tip, nosepiece, nozzle
otsakuti end to end
otsatus infinity
otsatu infinite
otsast from the beginning
otsas all gone
otsus decision, resolution
otsustama to decide
otsustamatus indecision
otsik 1 tip, nozzle
(ety. proto Finno-Permic *ońća "tip, forehead")

osa- 1
osa part
osak holding, stake
osadus fellowship
osalema to take part
osalus involvement, taking part
osastama endow
osandama dismantle
osanema to befall, fall upon, come in for
osutama to point to; to pinpoint
osutuma to prove [to be]; to turn out to be
ositama to distribute; to allot
(ety. proto Finno-Ugric *osa "part" from proto Finno-Permic *ońća "tip, forehead")

osk-, osa- 2
oskama to know how, can
oskamatu inept
oskamatus ineptitude
oskuslik skillful
oskus ability, proficiency
osavus cleverness
(ety. proto Finno-Ugric *osa "part" from proto Finno-Permic *ońća "tip, forehead")

osa- 3
osatama to mock; to mimic; to injure
osatus mocking, mimicking
(ety. ?)

ots- 2 (otsi-)
otsima to seek, look for
otsisklema to seek constantly
otsiskelu search
otsing search
otsitav searchable
otsija seeker
otsik 2 viewfinder
(ety. uncertain, possibly Germanic *enþjan- or unknown proto Finno-Permic)

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Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-23, 19:34

pael ribbon, band, lace, cord
paelama to bind with a ribbon
paeljas stringy
paeluma to captivate; to fascinate; to enthrall
paelutama to lace up; to attach ribbons/laces to
paelustama to captivate; to fascinate; to enthrall
kablutama to tether (mainly used in Southern dialects)
kablune made of string or rope (Räpine dialect)
(ety. Proto-Finnic *pakla 'cord, lace, string'; for kablutama and kablune, metathesis [p-k to k-p] with p changed to b through consonant gradation)

palistus edging, hem
palistama to hem, to border
(ety. Proto-Finnic *paldek)

Linguaphile
Posts: 3380
Joined: 2016-09-17, 5:06

Re: Linguaphile's thread for word sets

Postby Linguaphile » 2021-04-30, 16:49

puutu-, puudu- 1 (puudut-)
puutuma to touch; to concern; to regard
puudutama to touch; to affect; to concern
puudutlema to repeatedly touch lightly; to dab
puutlema to repeatedly touch each other, repeatedly contact
puutsama to limp (in scattered dialects)
puudutus touch
puutuja tangent
puutumatu intact, unmolested, untouched
puutumatus immunity, impunity
saadikupuutumatus diplomatic immunity, parliamentary immunity
puutumus exposure, contact
(ety. Proto-Finnic *puuttudak)

puud 1, puud- (puuda-, puudu- 2)
puud 1 deficit, shortage
puudama to miss, to feel as lacking
puuduma to be absent, to be missing
puudus lack, insufficiency
puudane 1 deficient, insufficient
puudulik defective, deficient, inadequate, incomplete
(ety. Proto-Finnic *puuttudak)

puud 2
puud 2 (pood, a unit of measure)
puudane 2 (weighing one puud)
(ety. Russian пуд)


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