Sentence making [help]

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Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-05-24, 17:49

I made this sentence hope to know what's errors on it.

Το μάτι του Μωυσή βλέπει το ύψος και το μάτι του Ααρών βλέπει την κατεύθυνση και το ύψος και η κατεύθυνση δεν εννοούν μόνο τα υλικά.

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby Dark_Horse » 2017-05-25, 19:03

Hi ahmed_crow, I'll try to help you. :)

"Το μάτι του Μωυσή βλέπει το ύψος και το μάτι του Ααρών βλέπει την κατεύθυνση"
This is perfectly correct! Bravo! :D

"και το ύψος και η κατεύθυνση δεν εννοούν μόνο τα υλικά"
Well, this sentence does not quite make sense. :hmm:
The grammar is perfect, but the verb "εννοούν" seems a bit out of place.
Can you write the sentence in English, so I can help you translate it into Greek?
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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-05-25, 20:11

"και το ύψος και η κατεύθυνση δεν εννοούν μόνο τα υλικά"
"and the height and the direction don't mean the matrial meanings only" (there's abstract height and abstract direction)

This is closest words for the meaning I want because I try to describe some visions and it's not easy to get the exactly words or meaning, but the closest.

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby Dark_Horse » 2017-05-25, 20:36

Considering the English sentence you gave me, it seems like a word for word translation would result in a somewhat awkward sentence in Greek. So, I believe it'd be best to rephrase it like this:

1. "και το ύψος και η κατεύθυνση δεν αφορούν μόνο την ύλη"
and the height and the direction don't refer only to matter

2. "και το ύψος και η κατεύθυνση δεν αφορούν μόνο τον υλικό κόσμο"
and the height and the direction don't refer only to the material world

Hope I helped. Please let me know if I misunderstood something or this is not the meaning you intended to express.
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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-05-26, 16:26

"Το μάτι του Μωυσή βλέπει το ύψος και το μάτι του Ααρών βλέπει την κατεύθυνση και το ύψος και η κατεύθυνση δεν αφορούν μόνο την ύλη"

I think it can do what I mean, you understand it good. Do you feel it's good greek ?

"don't refer only to matter", this is a good phrase, thank you :)

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby Dark_Horse » 2017-05-26, 21:47

Yeah, it's a comprehensible sentence. Just add a comma between "την κατεύθυνση" and "και το ύψος" and you're fine. :wink:

Just like this, in order to separate the two clauses:
Το μάτι του Μωυσή βλέπει το ύψος και το μάτι του Ααρών βλέπει την κατεύθυνση, και το ύψος και η κατεύθυνση δεν αφορούν μόνο την ύλη.

I'm glad to have been of some help! :)
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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-05-27, 16:36

No doubt that you helped me, thank you :)

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-05-29, 18:34

New sentences:

Θέλεις να ξέρεις με ?
Είμαι το θηρίο, όχι έναν άνθρωπος.

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby Dark_Horse » 2017-05-30, 16:51

Hello again, Ahmed! You handle the Greek language pretty well. :)

ahmed_crow wrote:Θέλεις να ξέρεις με ?

1. I don't know the context (if any), but I assume that you want to say: "Do you want to get to know me?". If that's the case, then it's better to use the verb "γνωρίζω" (= know, "meet", get to know) in the second person singular of the aorist subjunctive (γνωρίσεις).
Using the verb "ξέρω" (= know) sounds unnatural here.

2. When the object of the verb is the weak form of a personal pronoun (like "με"), it is then placed before the verb.
e.g. Σε αγαπώ. = I love you. (not "Αγαπώ σε", although this is used in some idioms, like Cypriot Greek as far as I know)
However, when the verb is in the imperative mood, the pronoun is placed after the verb.
e.g. Άνοιξέ το. = Open it. (not "Το άνοιξε", which means "He/she/it opened it")

3. The Greek question mark is this one: ;.
Unlike French, you don't need to put a space between the last word of the sentence and the question mark.
You can type the Greek exclamation mark by changing the language to Greek and pressing Q on your keyboard. :wink:

So, the sentence would be:
Θέλεις να με γνωρίσεις; (= Do you want to get to know me?)


ahmed_crow wrote:Είμαι το θηρίο, όχι έναν άνθρωπος.

Hmmm... This is kind of tricky. :hmm:
1. If you're talking about a specific beast (θηρίο), then you aptly used the definite article (το).
Otherwise (that is, talking about any beast and not a specific one), you could use the indefinite article (ένα) or not use any article at all.
Είμαι (ένα) θηρίο, όχι άνθρωπος. = I am a beast, not a human.

2. The word "έναν" is in the accusative case, but the word to which it refers is in the nominative (άνθρωπος), so you have to put it in the nominative as well (ένας).

3. Though comprehensible, the sentence would sound more natural if you dropped the indefinite article (ένας) altogether. Whereas in English it's essential, in Greek we often drop the indefinite article.
e.g. I am a teacher. → Είμαι δάσκαλος. ("Είμαι ένας δάσκαλος" is much less common)

So, the sentence would be:
Είμαι το θηρίο, όχι άνθρωπος. (= I'm the beast, not a human.)

Hope this helps! In case you still don't understand something, don't hesitate to ask. :)
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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-06-01, 18:32

There's no context, it was an imaginary situation on my mind.

Why "άνθρωπος" comes in nominative case ? is it because "όχι" or "θηρίο", I supposed "θηρίο" in accusative case not nominative or there's an exception for verb "Είμαι" ?

Είμαι το θηρίο, όχι άνθρωπος

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby Dark_Horse » 2017-06-01, 19:55

Both "άνθρωπος" and "θηρίο" are in the nominative.
Let me explain you the syntax of the sentence "Είμαι το θηρίο, όχι άνθρωπος".

1. The verb is "Είμαι" (= I am).

2. The implied subject is "εγώ" (= I), which is omitted because in Greek the verb itself indicates the person by its ending.
"Εγώ" is the nominative singular of the first-person personal pronoun (εγώ).
Every personal verb takes a subject in the nominative case.
The accusative (and sometimes the genitive) is used for the object of a verb.
e.g. Ο πατέρας μου είναι ψηλός. = My father is tall. (subject: ο πατέρας → nominative)
Αγαπώ τον πατέρα μου. = I love my father. (object: τον πατέρα → accusative)

3. Now, "είμαι" (= be) is a copular (or linking) verb. Copular verbs link their subject with another word in the sentence (usually an adjective) that describes or gives a characteristic to the subject. That word which describes and specifies the subject, is called a predicative and it needs a copular verb.

e.g. The sky is blue.
The verb is "is" (copular verb).
Its subject is "The sky".
Now, the verb "is" connects the subject ("the sky") to a word that describes it ("blue").
So, "blue" is the predicative of the subject "the sky" and the connection between those two is achieved with the help of the verb "is". That's why this kind of verbs are called copular or linking verbs.
The same applies to Greek as well.

4. So, according to the above-mentioned, the word "το θηρίο" is the predicative of the implied subject "εγώ", because it specifies and describes the subject.
Of course, since the predicate refers to the subject, it must be in the same case as it.
And since the subject of the verb is always in the nominative case, then its predicative must also be in the nominative.
Thus, "το θηρίο" is nominative and not accusative.

5. The word "όχι" here is used instead of "δεν είμαι".
Instead of saying: "Είμαι το θηρίο, δεν είμαι άνθρωπος" (= I am the beast, I am not a human),
we just say "Είμαι το θηρίο, όχι άνθρωπος", (= I am the beast, not a human) in order to avoid repeating the same verb ("είμαι") twice.

So "άνθρωπος" is the predicative of the implied subject "εγώ" (subjects of verbs always in the nominative case) of the omitted verb "δεν είμαι", that's why it is in the nominative.
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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-06-02, 14:52

It's a wonderful explication, do you have examples for verbs that's like "Είμαι" which take nominative, and do you have examples for verbs that take genitive ?

You said good information about "Είμαι", in Arabic we say something like "Εγώ το θηρίο, όχι άνθρωπο", we don't have to use "Είμαι", and "το θηρίο" is like in nominative,"άνθρωπο" is like in accusative, but "Είμαι" seems nice verb in Greek, I like it. :D

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby Dark_Horse » 2017-06-03, 5:05

So, you use the accusative in this sentence in Arabic... Interesting. :wink:
Yeah, "είμαι" is quite simple in Greek. :)

Before we begin, please never forget that PERSONAL VERBS ALWAYS TAKE A SUBJECT IN THE NOMINATIVE.

So, as we already said, verbs which take a complement in the nominative case are called copular or linking verbs. Their complement, which is in the nominative case, is called a predicative; it's a word (usually an adjective) that gives the subject of the verb a characteristic. Predicatives always need a copular verb to link them with the subject they refer to; otherwise, they're not predicatives.
e.g. Το σπίτι είναι παλιό. → The house is big.

The two main copular verbs (that is, verbs which require a predicative) are "είμαι" (= be) and "γίνομαι" (= become).
e.g. Ο κήπος είναι όμορφος. → The garden is beautiful.
Ο αδερφός μου έγινε δήμαρχος. → My brother became a mayor.


Other copular verbs are:
φαίνομαι (= appear [to be], look)
Φαίνεσαι άρρωστος. = You look/appear to be sick.

υπάρχω (= be, exist) [this verb lends its past tenses (except for the imperfect) to the verb "είμαι"]
Υπήρξε πρωθυπουργός της χώρας. = He had been the prime minister of the country.

γεννιέμαι (= be born)
Γεννήθηκε τυφλός. = He was born blind.

διατελώ (= serve [as] - used for offices/political positions)
Διετέλεσε πρόεδρος των ΗΠΑ. = He was/served as the President of the USA.

θεωρούμαι (= be considered, be deemed)
Ο Γιώργος θεωρείται σπουδαίος επιστήμονας. = George is considered a great scientist.



The vast majority of the Greek verbs take an object in the accusative. However, there are some verbs that take an object in the genitive.

1. The verb μοιάζω (= look like)
Ο Στέφανος μοιάζει του πατέρα του. = Stephen looks like his father.

The genitive here can be replaced by "με/σε + accusative"
Ο Στέφανος μοιάζει με τον πατέρα του.
Ο Στέφανος μοιάζει στον πατέρα του.

2. The verbs μιλάω (= speak, talk), γράφω (= write), διαβάζω (= read), διδάσκω (= teach), δίνω (= give) and many other verbs that take 2 objects. All these verbs follow the pattern "do [sth] for/to [sb]".
Μου μιλάει. = He is talking to me.
Του έδωσα το βιβλίο. = I gave him the book.
Σου διδάσκω ελληνικά. = I am teaching you Greek.

All these genitives can be replaced by "σε + accusative"
Μιλάει σε μένα.
Έδωσα το βιβλίο σε αυτόν.
Διδάσκω ελληνικά σε σένα.
etc.
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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-06-07, 19:50

New sentence:

Το ελληνικά είναι στον αριθμό του ήλιου.

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby Dark_Horse » 2017-06-10, 10:54

ahmed_crow wrote:Το1 Τα ελληνικά είναι στον αριθμό του (ήλιου)2Ήλιου.

1. The word "ελληνικά" (= Greek) is in the neuter plural nominative, so you have to use the neuter plural nominative article: "Τα".

In order to form language names, you have to use the nationality adjective of a country.
e.g. Ελλάδα → ελληνικός, ,

First way:
Use the feminine singular of the nationality adjective.
e.g. ελληνική [the feminine singular noun "γλώσσα" (= language) is implied, that's why you have to use the feminine singular form of the adjective]

Second way:
Use the neuter plural of the nationality adjective.
e.g. ελληνικά

The first way is too formal, whereas the second way is the most common one. Of course, you can always include the word "γλώσσα" with the corresponding national adjective in the feminine singular. :wink:
e.g. ελληνική γλώσσα



Now, as far as the sentence is concerned, apart from the little mistake on the article, it is grammatically correct. However, I'm not quite sure about the meaning you aimed for.
The sentence translatea as:
Greek is at the number of the Sun.

2. I'd also advise you to write "Ήλιου" with an uppercase "Η", because in this context you are referring to that specific star (whose name is Sun), and not any sun in the universe. The same rule applies to English, as well. :wink:
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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-06-13, 17:54

Dark_Horse wrote:In order to form language names, you have to use the nationality adjective of a country.
e.g. Ελλάδα → ελληνικός, -ή, -ό


So, how can I do with "Arabic" ? Because I've no idea according to my Arabic culture that there's an Arabian country called "Arabic" or "Arabian", in fact in original Arabic I know that name doesn't exist, so is this correct (I used google translate to help):

Η αραβική είναι στον αριθμό του Φεγγαριού.

Dark_Horse wrote:Now, as far as the sentence is concerned, apart from the little mistake on the article, it is grammatically correct. However, I'm not quite sure about the meaning you aimed for.
The sentence translatea as:
Greek is at the number of the Sun.


Numbers that I mean are big topic, I knew by visions, every number has a finger that refers to it, every planet has a finger or number, I refer to fingers with them planets instead of "numbers" or fingers names, the number of the Sun or its finger is "the ring finger" of the left hand, these numbers are used in many things like magic and spirituality, they have rules but I know few about it.

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby Dark_Horse » 2017-06-13, 18:24

ahmed_crow wrote:So, how can I do with "Arabic" ? Because I've no idea according to my Arabic culture that there's an Arabian country called "Arabic" or "Arabian", in fact in original Arabic I know that name doesn't exist, so is this correct (I used google translate to help):

Η αραβική είναι στον αριθμό του Φεγγαριού.


Of course, there's not a country named "Arabia"; it is the Arabic Peninsula (Αραβική Χερσόνησος) or Arabia (Αραβία). The people populating these regions are called Arabs (Άραβες) and their language is Arabic (αραβικά/αραβική).

So, yeah, the above sentence is perfectly correct. Here are some alternate ways to phrase the same sentence:

Τα αραβικά είναι στον αριθμό του Φεγγαριού.
or
Τα αραβικά είναι στον αριθμό της Σελήνης.

"Σελήνη" is the official scientific name of Earth's satellite; it is mostly used in astronomy, physics, astrology, etc. Hence "full moon" in Greek is "πανσέληνος". :wink:
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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-06-16, 18:27

Dark_Horse wrote:Of course, there's not a country named "Arabia"; it is the Arabic Peninsula (Αραβική Χερσόνησος) or Arabia (Αραβία). The people populating these regions are called Arabs (Άραβες) and their language is Arabic (αραβικά/αραβική).


"Arabia" isn't a noun in fact, I think they took it in English literally, because it's an adjective, singular feminine form in Arabic, it means "Arabian", so "Arabian" is the proper English adjective, so it's "The Arabian Peninsula ", "Arabia" or "Arabian" is a part in names of most of Arabian countries, The Arabian Peninsula isn't a country, it's numbers of countries, big one of 'em the Saudi Arabia, or the Arabian Saudi kingdom, the literally meaning.

By the way, I need help in relative pronouns if you have a time, I note the relative pronouns in Greek in the meaning of (who ,whom, whose(as subject), whose(as object)), I can't see the differences and I hope to know all possibilities that pronouns can come in, for example, what if we use relative pronouns after prepositions that use accusative or genitive, the link is:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=51380

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Re: Sentence making [help]

Postby ahmed_crow » 2017-09-15, 8:58

Ok, this one is a challenge for me, I can't do it myself, how to translate this:

A vision "The exact literal translate of Quran to Greek comes in the right hands of Greek people, and the exact literal translate of it to Latin comes in the left hands of Romans, but in Arabic the verses blockade the Arabian people to believe."


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