pronunciation

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kman1
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pronunciation2

Postby kman1 » 2009-04-19, 0:53

Saaropean wrote:I listened to some other podcasts of yours. Your Greek pronunciation is completely wrong. I advise you not to continue before reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_orthography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Greek_phonology

I looked at those pages and I think this sums up what the pages are saying: (am i correct?)

• /i/ can be written as η, ι, υ, ει, οι, υι
• /e/ can be written as both ε and αι;
• /o/ can be written as both ο and ω.

γγ, γκ -> ‘y’ sound
μπ -> ‘b’ sound
ντ -> ‘d’ sound
ου -> ‘u’ sound
ωυ -> ‘oi’ sound

αυ -> [av] before vowel or voiced consonant; [af] otherwise
ευ -> [e̞v] before vowel or voiced consonant; [e̞f] otherwise
ηυ -> [iv] before vowel or voiced consonant; [if] otherwise

So, what’s the rule for when voiceless consonants become voiced? This is what I found on omniglot’s greek page:

voiceless consonants are voiced when they are preceded by a word that ends in ‘ν’

Is this the rule that I follow or am I still lost?
Saaropean wrote:Many of your French vowels are wrong, too. But I guess the French forum tells you how to correct that. ;)

I have been reading about French vowel pronunciation and it's pretty difficult:
http://www.languageguide.org/francais/g ... unciation/

I think that I will have to get French vowels down by continually listening to them.

KingHarvest
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Re: pronunciation

Postby KingHarvest » 2009-04-19, 1:57

kman1 wrote:• /i/ can be written as η, ι, υ, ει, οι, υι
• /e/ can be written as both ε and αι;
• /o/ can be written as both ο and ω.


Yes.

kman1 wrote:γγ, γκ -> ‘y’ sound


No. γγ is a [ŋɣ], that is the <ng> sound in "sing" followed by a voiced velar fricative.
γκ is [(ŋ)g], i.e. <ng> followed by <g>. At the beginning of words it's just <g>. Whether the nasal is actually there in medial positions is very complex, so you should always pronounce it (unless it's a foreign word that's been transcribed or it is a particular word when it's just not pronounced) until you understand the situations when it wouldn't be pronounced.

μπ -> ‘b’ sound


Same as γκ except it is [(m)b].

ντ -> ‘d’ sound


[(n)d]

ου -> ‘u’ sound


Yes.

ωυ -> ‘oi’ sound


I've never seen this. [oɪ] is generally represented with οϊ.

αυ -> [av] before vowel or voiced consonant; [af] otherwise
ευ -> [e̞v] before vowel or voiced consonant; [e̞f] otherwise
ηυ -> [iv] before vowel or voiced consonant; [if] otherwise


Yes, though ηυ is pretty rare.

So, what’s the rule for when voiceless consonants become voiced? This is what I found on omniglot’s greek page:

“voiceless consonants are voiced when they are preceded by a word that ends in ‘ν’ ”

Is this the rule that I follow or am I still lost?


That's kind of misleading. Most of the time that ν ends a word is the article, and then the ν is usually dropped unless it's followed by a vowel or a stop, when it must remain. When the initial sound is a stop, the ν and the stop behave as though it is one of the consonant clusters you listed up above, e.g την Κυριακή is pronounced like it is τηγκυριακή.
Most men are rather stupid, and most of those who are not stupid are, consequently, rather vain.
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KingHarvest
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pronunciation

Postby KingHarvest » 2009-04-19, 4:46

My mod powers don't extend this far, but it would probably be smart to move this part of the conversation to the Greek forum, for any passing global mods.
Most men are rather stupid, and most of those who are not stupid are, consequently, rather vain.
-A.E. Housman

modus.irrealis
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Re: pronunciation

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-04-19, 5:23

KingHarvest wrote:No. γγ is a [ŋɣ], that is the <ng> sound in "sing" followed by a voiced velar fricative.

Just a small correction -- that's true only for some but not all compounds with συν- and εν- (perhaps elsewhere as well, but I don't think it is). γγ is usually pronounced the same as γκ.

KingHarvest
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Re: pronunciation

Postby KingHarvest » 2009-04-19, 5:32

Really? I assumed I just couldn't tell the difference since [ɣ] isn't a natural part of my phonology.
Most men are rather stupid, and most of those who are not stupid are, consequently, rather vain.
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Re: pronunciation

Postby modus.irrealis » 2009-04-19, 6:11

Yeah, it's only in a few words that γγ represents [ŋɣ] -- or of course [nʝ] (maybe [ɲʝ]) depending on the following vowel. I'm sure you can notice the difference though when a front vowel follows, like the name Ευάγγελος.

Odd thing is there's been a different development for γγ compared to μβ and νδ. With the latter, even though the ancient pronunciation was preserved (γαμβρός > γαμπρός and ἄνδρα > άντρα), they now have a spelling pronunciation. I've always thought the reason was that [ŋɣ] is much harder to say than [ɱv] or [nð], although that doesn't really apply to [nʝ].

kman1
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Re: pronunciation

Postby kman1 » 2009-07-28, 22:46

I just re-recorded my Greek reading. please let me know what you think of it. :)

also, i found an excellent site that goes over Greek pronunciation:
http://www.webtopos.gr/eng/languages/gr ... chart1.htm

enjoy!


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