Questions about Greek

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Levike
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby Levike » 2014-01-14, 19:34

What's the difference between αισθάνομαι and νιώθω.

As usual examples are welcome. :D

Could you also post your answer in Greek, bilingual text are quite handy.
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby embici » 2014-02-03, 19:44

Levente wrote:Just a question out of curiosity. :D

In Romanian we have these expressions:

Nu am înțeles nicio iotă = I didn't understand a iota of it ( It didn't understand anything )

Nu are nicio noimă = It doesn't have a noima ( It's doesn't make sense )

Do you have these expressions in Greek and if yes then how do they look?


In English we use "iota" just like in your example.

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby Viridzen » 2014-03-07, 18:11

Here's a strange question. How much of Greek vocabulary is from Ancient Greek, and how could I tell what is and isn't? Because, I see lots of Greek words that look foreign, perhaps Turkish. (I know it's not easy to give a definite answer, but somewhere close?)
Please, correct my errors. S'il vous plaît, corrigez mes erreurs.
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby md0 » 2014-03-07, 18:38

This is a hard question for linguists to answer in general, and it's even harder in Greek, because linguistic databases are hard to come by.

More over, many ancient Greek and Medieval Greek words themselves are loanwords (Persian, Latin and Pre-Hellenic), and others might be morphologically Greek, but their meanings are borrowed (calques).

I will attempt to do some very quick-n-dirty (I really want to emphasise that) calculations, using the online version of the Aristotelian University's dictionary of Standard Modern Greek. Keep in mind that Greek dictionaries tend to be small and only include high frequency words. Neologisms and many regionalisms aren't included often. The dictionary lists productive morphemes like suffixes as lemmata. Sometimes more than one etymology tag is used, when a word was meanings coming from different times/languages.

So, total lemmata: 46 747
Etymology tags
αρχ. (ancient): 14 758
ελνστ. (hellenistic, aka Alexandrian) 9 699
μσν. (medieval): 5 304
νεοελλ. (neohellenic) : 58 (obviously lacking in the contemporary department. More than 58 new words were coined in the last 50 years)

English yields some 2 700, Turkish about 1 000, Arabic about 300, French is around 8 000. Italian is around 1 600, Latin and Neo-latin around 2 000,

----

The foreword of the dictionary mentions that 15~20% of the modern Greek lemmata in the dictionary are calques and "internationalisms"
http://www.greek-language.gr/greekLang/ ... 16/03.html
Last edited by md0 on 2014-03-07, 18:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby md0 » 2014-03-07, 18:41

how could I tell what is and isn't?

You can't always tell.
Can you tell that παράδεισος and οθόνη are Persian? That σπίτι is Latin?

But if a word ends in a consonant other than -ς or -ν, or that it is a noun that doesn't decline, high chances it is not native in origin.
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby Viridzen » 2014-03-07, 22:46

Okay. Is there a place where I can see a list of loanwords or something? On another note, for when I take up Greek again: do loanwords (especially from Turkish, English, and French) decline?
Please, correct my errors. S'il vous plaît, corrigez mes erreurs.
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby md0 » 2014-03-08, 4:33

You can use 'advanced search' on that dictionary, like I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t694cSXwPd0
---

I'd say they usually decline. In the past, very few wouldn't be given a decline-able suffix. So the old school loanwords (from Turkish, Latin/Italian, Arabic, Persian, Slavic, Romanian/Vlach) decline most of the time. You can tell, because they have noun suffixes.
Recent loanwords also decline, but it's common for them not to. French loanwords mostly decline, with exceptions, English loanwords mostly do not decline. Those which don't will be marked άκλιτο or ακλ. in the dictionary.

Verbs aren't borrowed as often, but of course, they always conjugate. They get a verb suffix. Most of the time -άρω. Sometimes -ίζω, very rarely any of the others. (-άρω is thought to be Latinate in origin (-are). Came with borrowed Latin verbs, was generalised to be used with most borrowed verbs that didn't have a conjugate-able suffix)
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby Gonloyir » 2014-09-11, 15:16

DANAY wrote:ΕΔΩ ΕΙΜΑΙ ΤΖΟΥΤΖΟΥΚΟ, ΡΩΤΑ Ο,ΤΙ ΘΕΣ........ΕΧΩ ΝΑ ΣΟΥ ΜΑΘΩ ΤΟΝΟΥΣ ΚΑΘΟΜΙΛΟΜΕΝΗΣ, ΠΟΥ ΟΥΤΕ ΚΑΝ ΦΑΝΤΑΖΕΣΑΙ.....
ΑΝΤΕ ΒΡΕ ΚΟΡΙΤΣΙΑ ΜΕ ΤΙΣ ΧΑΖΕΣ ΠΟΥ ΜΠΛΕΞΑΤΕ.....ΜΠΟΡΟΥΝ ΟΙ ΣΤΡΕΙΤ ΝΑ ΔΙΔΑΞΟΥΝ ΓΛΩΣΣΕΣ?
ΚΙ ΑΝ ΔΕΙΣ ΚΑΛΟΝ ΕΞΗΓΗΤΗ ΣΕ ΓΛΩΣΣΕΣ, ΚΑΠΟΙΟ ΛΑΚΟ ΕΧΕΙ Η ΦΑΒΑ........
ΒΛΕΠΕΙΣ ΤΗΝ ΜΙΑ, ΑΝΤΙ ΝΑ ΚΥΝΗΓΑΕΙ ΓΚΟΜΕΝΕΣ ΣΤΑ 25 ΤΗς, ΝΑ ΜΑΘΑΙΝΕΙ ΖΟΥΛΟΥ, ΑΛΛΗ ΝΑ ΞΕΡΕΙ 400000 ΚΑΝΤΖΙ ΣΤΑ 20....ΤΡΕΛΛΕΣ ΑΔΕΛΦΕΣ ΘΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ....ΑΥΤΕΣ ΠΡΩΤΟΤΥΠΟΥΝ ΣΥΝΗΘΩΣ............
ΤΕΛΟΣ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ, ΑΣ ΜΗ ΓΙΝΟΜΑΙ ΚΑΚΙΑ........
ΚΟΡΙΤΣΙΑ, ΑΥΤΗ ΕΙΝΑΙ Η ΖΩΝΤΑΝΗ ΓΛΩΣΣΑ....ΒΓΑΛΤΕ ΤΗΝ ΜΠΟΥΡΓΚΑ ΚΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΓΚΟΜΕΝΟΥΣ....
ΟΚ, ΠΑΡΤΕ ΚΑΙ 5-6 ΚΑΡΤΕΛΕΣ ΛΑΞΑΤΟΝΙΛ ΝΑ ΥΠΑΡΧΟΥΝ ΚΑΙ ΣΤΟ ΣΠΙΤΙ, ΓΙΑΤΙ ΠΟΤΕ ΔΕΝ ΞΕΡΕΤΕ ΤΙ ΚΑΝΕΙ Ο ΓΚΑΥ ΚΟΛΛΗΤΟΣ ΜΕ ΤΟ ΓΚΟΜΕΝΟ ΟΣΟ ΕΣΕΙΣ ΕΙΣΤΕ ΣΤΗΝ ΑΠΟΤΡΙΧΩΤΖΟΥ.....ΚΙ ΕΠΕΙΔΗ ΕΓΩ ΕΙΜΑΙ ΠΑΛΙΑ ΚΑΡΑΒΑΝΑ ΠΟΥ ΤΑ ΕΧΕΙ ΔΕΙ ΟΛΑ....ΣΑΣ ΣΥΜΒΟΥΛΕΥΩ, ΚΑΝΟΝΤΑΣ ΧΙΟΥΜΟΡ ΕΙΣ ΒΑΡΟΣ ΣΑΣ,
ΓΙΑΤΙ ΒΑΡΙΕΜΑΙ.........ΑΝΤΕ ΤΩΡΑ ΝΑ ΒΑΛΟΥΜΕ ΦΙΛΛΑΝΔΟ ΝΑ ΤΑ ΜΕΤΑΦΡΑΣΕΙ ΟΛΑ ΑΥΤΑ.....ΚΑΙ ΠΕΣ ΟΤΙ ΤΑ ΜΕΤΑΦΡΑΣΕ, ΕΣΤΩ ΜΕ ΛΕΞΙΚΟ....ΘΑ ΚΑΤΑΛΑΒΕΙ ΤΙ ΕΝΝΟΩ???........ΑΝ ΗΤΑΝ ΒΕΛΓΟΣ ΘΑ ΗΞΕΡΑ ΝΑ ΤΟΝ ΚΟΥΛΑΝΤΡΙΣΩ....ΤΩΡΑ ΟΜΩΣ....ΓΑΜΗΣΕ ΤΑ ΦΙΛΕΝΑΔΑ.....


Πρώτον για την ακρίβεια δεν έχεις ιδέα πως η αξιολόγηση της ομοφυλοφυλίας δουλεύει. Το γεγονός
ότι σε ξεφτίλισαν κάποιοι πανέξυπνοι άντρακλες γλωσσομαθείς γιατί σε βρήκαν εντελώς άσχημη, καταγέλαστη, θύμα, ανισόρροπη και ανοργασμική δεν τους κάνει "αδελφές". Επειδή κάποιος επικοδομητικά ασχολείται με γλωσσομάθεια για παράδειγμα με Ιαπωνικά δεν γίνεται άτομο με ομυφυλοφυλία. Αυτή είναι μια βλακώδης παράλογη μπαρούφα που δεν παίρνεται καθόλου σοβαρά όπως και τα νοητικά ασήμαντα ανάπηρα άτομα που την υποστηρίζουν άλλωστε.
Επειδή ξέρουν και είναι ενημερωμένοι για την σοβαρή μορφή του Σύνδρομο Down σου και του συμπλέγματος κατωτερότητας σου αυτό δεν τους κάνει καθόλου "αδελφές" ή οποιαδήποτε ασυνάρτητη lame καθυστερημένη λογική που χρησιμοποιείται σήμερα εσείς οι νεο-"έλληνες" mongrels, οπότε παραμένουν πραγματικοί άντρακλες. Οπότε πάρε τις καθυστερημένες μαλακίες σου κάπου αλλού.

Δεύτερον η πρωτοπορία αποδεικνύεται πως είναι απολύτως αντρικό χαρακτηριστικό, αλλά προφανώς η σχεδόν μηδαμινή νοημοσύνη σου και η πουτανιά σου δεν αναγνωρίζει αυτήν την ατόφια αλήθεια και την διαφορά μεταξύ του λατινικού ερωτηματικού και του ελληνικού ερωτηματικού οπότε αυτή είναι άλλη μια καλή απόδειξη για το γεγονός πως δεν ξέρεις για ποιο πράγμα μιλάς.

Τρίτον λές ένα σωρό βλακείες και αξίζεις να ντροπιαστείς, αλλά το κάνεις μόνη σου οπότε καμία προσπάθεια δεν χρειάζεται. Διασκέδασε με την αξιέπαινη ξεφτίλα σου που είναι πέρα από κάθε επιδιόρθωση και μην ξαναρθείς εδώ, άχρηστη πουτάνα. Καμία προσβολή για να μην παρεξηγούμαστε. :partyhat:

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby chalkie » 2015-04-17, 10:43

Can you tell me the difference between ρωταω and ζηταω please.

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby Michael » 2015-04-17, 21:23

chalkie wrote:Can you tell me the difference between ρωταω and ζηταω please.

Ρωτάω: to ask a question
Ζητάω: to ask for something
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby lishaoxuan » 2015-12-12, 9:17

I have been going through Memrise's 1652 Essential Greek Words, and there are some that I just can't seem to get down.

Is the word εκρηγνύομαι (to explode) made up of any word root or prefix?

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby md0 » 2015-12-12, 9:50

Is the word εκρηγνύομαι (to explode) made up of any word root or prefix?


Oh yes. But it's a quite opaque word and the etymology goes back in Ancient Greek (it wasn't coined recently), we just accept it as a whole.

So, you have εκ (multipurpose suffix, here probably denoting movement) + ρήξη (rupture) + verbal suffix witchery because it from a rate conjugation.

Now, Greece's Greek doesn't come natively to me and we use a different verb in my variety of Greek, but I think the medio-passive from of the verb is εκρήγνυμαι without the -o-. At least that's how you find it in dictionaries, I don't know if in common speech Greeks tried to make it more regular.
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby lishaoxuan » 2015-12-12, 10:52

meidei wrote:So, you have εκ (multipurpose suffix, here probably denoting movement) + ρήξη (rupture) + verbal suffix witchery because it from a rate conjugation.

Now, Greece's Greek doesn't come natively to me and we use a different verb in my variety of Greek, but I think the medio-passive from of the verb is εκρήγνυμαι without the -o-. At least that's how you find it in dictionaries, I don't know if in common speech Greeks tried to make it more regular.


Thanks meidei for such a prompt response! I think I will finally be able to memorize this word now! :D

Can you offer a few more examples with prefix εκ- and root ρύξη? Is a εκ- variation of εξ- ?

Can you also explain a little more about "rate conjugation". What would I need to search for to find a more detailed explanation?

Let me know if I understood right, even though the ending is -υμαι, is it of same construction with the more common -ομαι, but due to component of other parts of this word, the ο got switched to υ?

Thanks!

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby lishaoxuan » 2015-12-12, 10:56

Another question:

Do words:
πριόνι (saw)
σιτάρι (wheat)
σίδηρος (iron)
have any English, or Indo-European cognates?

The more connections I am able to make, the better I can memorize those words.

Thanks!!

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby md0 » 2015-12-12, 18:49

Is a εκ- variation of εξ- ?

Yes.
Can you offer a few more examples with prefix εκ- and root ρήξη?

I don't think there's a lot, the only thing that comes to mind now are the noun έκρηξη (explosion) and the adjective εκρηκτικός (explosive).

Can you also explain a little more about "rate conjugation

Sorry, that was a typo I didn't notice. I meant to write "a rare conjugation".
We refer it as "verbs ending in -μι" when we study ancient Greek, apparently in English they define them as athematic verbs.
What is relevant here is that these verbs were made more regular (they end in -ω in the dictionary form like all other Greek verbs) as the language evolved to more modern forms (they fall out of favour by the Hellenistic times iirc), but they still stand out because only few of them exist and they are a bit awkward for people to use.

Let me know if I understood right, even though the ending is -υμαι, is it of same construction with the more common -ομαι, but due to component of other parts of this word, the ο got switched to υ?

I think the answer can be derived from the part about -μι verbs. Basically it's the result of making those -μι verbs into regular first conjugation verbs (ending in -ω in the active voice, and -(ο)μαι in the mediopassive)

have any English, or Indo-European cognates?

From the top of my head I can't think of any.
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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby lishaoxuan » 2015-12-13, 1:03

You have been so helpful Meidei!!

Here's another one I encountered today:
καταφύγιο, shelter.
Is the part φύγιο related to the φεύγω? or is it something else?

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby dimos » 2015-12-18, 21:57

lishaoxuan wrote: καταφύγιο, shelter.
Is the part φύγιο related to the φεύγω? or is it something else?

Καταφύγιο stems from the verb καταφεύγω (~take shelter). When we produce nouns from verbs, we usually (if not always) use the Aorist stem of the verb.
I suggest you learn word families so you become familiar with word formation, which is very important in greek.

Here is the family of the verb ΦΕΥΓΩ, which gives 2 stems: φευγ- and φυγ-

(stem+ending)
φεύγω/έφυγα > φυγή > φυγάς > φυγαδεύω, φευκτικός, φευγαλέος, φευγάτος

(preposition+verb/noun)
(από+φεύγω) αποφεύγω > αποφυγή, αποφευκτικός-ή-ό
(δια+φεύγω) διαφεύγω > διαφυγή
(εκ+φεύγω) εκφεύγω
(κατά+φεύγω) καταφεύγω > καταφυγή > καταφύγιο
(προς+φεύγω) προσφεύγω > προσφυγή > πρόσφυγας

(stem + connective "o" + verb/noun)
(φόρος+φυγάς = φoρ+ο+φυγάς) φοροφυγάς
(φόρος+διαφεύγω) φοροδιαφεύγω
(φόρος+διαφυγή) φοροδιαφυγή

(stem n1 + connective "o" + stem n2 + ending)
(φεύγω+δίκη = φυγ+ο+δικ+ος) φυγόδικος > φυγοδικώ > φυγοδικία
(φεύγω+μάχη) φυγόμαχος > φυγομαχώ > φυγομαχία
(φεύγω+πόνος) φυγόπονος > φυγοπονώ > φυγοπονία
(φεύγω+ποινή) φυγόποινος
(φεύγω+κέντρο) φυγόκεντρος-η-ο

(ά+φεύγω) άφευκτος
(α+απόφεύγω) αναπόφευκτος

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby Multiturquoise » 2016-01-28, 15:41

(My Greek is considerably good, but I'll write in English in order to be understood by others more easily)

1. How should I use the participles of passive verbs like εξασκούμαι?

2. Which sentence would be more correct?
*EN: I spend my spare time playing the piano.
*EL(1): Περνώ τον ελεύθερο μου χρόνο εξασκώντας στο πιάνο.
*EL(2): Περνώ τον ελεύθερο μου χρόνο εξασκούμενος στο πιάνο.
Native: (tr)
Fluent: (el)
Learning: (ka) (en) (sv)

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby dimos » 2016-02-01, 10:24

Elaine wrote:2. Which sentence would be more correct?
*EN: I spend my spare time playing the piano.
*EL(1): Περνώ τον ελεύθερο μου χρόνο εξασκώντας στο πιάνο.
*EL(2): Περνώ τον ελεύθερο μου χρόνο εξασκούμενος στο πιάνο.

The first sentence is grammatically wrong as it is an active voice participle (εξασκώ). It would be correct if you said "Περνώ τον ελεύθερό μου χρόνο εξασκώντας τον αδερφό μου στο πιάνω"
The second one is correct but too formal. It would sound better saying "Περνώ τον ελεύθερό μου χρόνο κάνοντας εξάσκηση στο πιάνο."

Elaine wrote:1. How should I use the participles of passive verbs like εξασκούμαι?

Modern greek grammars recognise only 2 types of passive voice participles:
-Present perfect (παθητική μετοχή παρακειμένου) εξασκημένος ex: Θα τα καταφέρω, είμαι εξασκημένος σε αυτό.
-Present tense (παθητική μετοχή ενεστώτα) εξασκούμενος which is mostly used in fossilized phrases like "ασκούμενος δικηγόρος". Otherwise you will sound too formal (personally I like it :) )

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Re: Questions about Greek

Postby Multiturquoise » 2016-02-04, 12:50

dimos wrote:
Elaine wrote:2. Which sentence would be more correct?
*EN: I spend my spare time playing the piano.
*EL(1): Περνώ τον ελεύθερο μου χρόνο εξασκώντας στο πιάνο.
*EL(2): Περνώ τον ελεύθερο μου χρόνο εξασκούμενος στο πιάνο.

The first sentence is grammatically wrong as it is an active voice participle (εξασκώ). It would be correct if you said "Περνώ τον ελεύθερό μου χρόνο εξασκώντας τον αδερφό μου στο πιάνω"
The second one is correct but too formal. It would sound better saying "Περνώ τον ελεύθερό μου χρόνο κάνοντας εξάσκηση στο πιάνο."

Elaine wrote:1. How should I use the participles of passive verbs like εξασκούμαι?

Modern greek grammars recognise only 2 types of passive voice participles:
-Present perfect (παθητική μετοχή παρακειμένου) εξασκημένος ex: Θα τα καταφέρω, είμαι εξασκημένος σε αυτό.
-Present tense (παθητική μετοχή ενεστώτα) εξασκούμενος which is mostly used in fossilized phrases like "ασκούμενος δικηγόρος". Otherwise you will sound too formal (personally I like it :) )


Σ' ευχαριστώ πολύ, Δημήτρη!
Native: (tr)
Fluent: (el)
Learning: (ka) (en) (sv)


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