Hokkien Study Group

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby Ser » 2018-06-30, 20:28

dEhiN wrote:
księżycowy wrote:Oh fuck it. I think I might try to keep this going once a week, if you still want to do this as a group. Progress will be slow, but it's been slow to begin with. (I really have been wrestling with this morally. And not just this group either! I feel bad about dropping off with Polish too. :( )

Why morally? There's no judgement call on you needing or having to drop these groups. At least, not as far as I'm concerned. You tried something which you thought would be a good idea, and then realized that perhaps you bit off more than you can chew.

I agree with dEhiN there's no reason to struggle morally with dropping off the group. I think it was clear to all of us you were biting more than you could chew.
carmina vel caelo possunt deducere lunam (Vergilius, Eclogae VIII.69)

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-06-30, 20:50

Ok, maybe it's not so much a moral issue as much as just feeling bad about leaving. I just hate starting something and then a week or two in flaking.

Well, I'm almost inclinded to say I could try to do something similar to Irish and Hebrew and do a light weekly session, but I don't really want to go right back down the path to biting off more than I can chew. Plus, I have to keep my goals clear to myself.

I can't promise anything, but maybe during one of my "free" 3 month periods we could get this going again. Obviously that's dependent on how everything else goes though.

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby OldBoring » 2018-07-01, 7:32

Because of this decision y'all will be banned from the Chinese forum for two weeks. I wish I had that power...

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-01, 16:20

I forgot that we didn't. :P
księżycowy wrote:Ok, maybe it's not so much a moral issue as much as just feeling bad about leaving. I just hate starting something and then a week or two in flaking.

It was actually over two weeks (much more than that if you count all the toying with Taishanese and such), but anyway, it's not exactly a crime to go all-out on a language and then suddenly pull out. That's just how languagesex-learning works. :) There is such a thing as overload, and taking breaks to prevent it is in fact crucial. I effectively do the same thing. For example, I haven't done anything all that serious with Quechua in about a year (as much as I'd love to).

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby dEhiN » 2018-07-01, 18:18

OldBoring wrote:Because of this decision y'all will be banned from the Chinese forum for two weeks. I wish I had that power...

Beyond not having the power to ban, there's also the ability to ban specifically from certain forums. I don't think that's possible at all with phpBB, afaik.
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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-01, 19:34

Really? I remember someone telling me they were banned from a language-specific forum. Maybe the moderator just told them that, though.

EDIT: Wait a second.

Ser is still studying Hokkien. Right? So...there's nothing stopping me from helping him with it, is there?

Maybe I could keep working on rewriting SAH for his sake then?

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby OldBoring » 2018-07-04, 5:57

vijayjohn wrote:Really? I remember someone telling me they were banned from a language-specific forum. Maybe the moderator just told them that, though.

Really? Whoa.

Ser is still studying Hokkien. Right? So...there's nothing stopping me from helping him with it, is there?

Will you continue this study group if it's only the two of you?

Ser wrote:
dEhiN wrote:C'est la vie. Que será, será. Et al.

(How's that for a multilingual response! ;) :D)

"Que será, será" is ungrammatical Spanish. :(

(It should be "Lo que será, será" at least. And yes, I know it comes from some stupid song.)

WTH?

None of you knew that it's a French song?
It's actually: Quel sera, sera.

In Italian they translated it wrongly as "Che sarà, sarà". But this way the lyrics fit better in the music.

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby dEhiN » 2018-07-04, 14:22

OldBoring wrote:None of you knew that it's a French song?
It's actually: Quel sera, sera.

Vraiment ?! Selon Wikipedia, apparemment pas :
The popularity of the song has led to curiosity about the origins of the saying and the identity of its language. Both the Spanish-like spelling used by Livingston and Evans and an Italian-like form ("che sarà sarà") are first documented in the 16th century as an English heraldic motto.[7] The "Spanish" form appears on a brass plaque in the Church of St. Nicholas, Thames Ditton, Surrey, dated 1559.[8] The "Italian" form was first adopted as a family motto by either John Russell, 1st Earl of Bedford, or his son, Francis Russell, 2nd Earl of Bedford. It is said by some sources to have been adopted by the elder Russell after his experience at the Battle of Pavia (1525), and to be engraved on his tomb (1555 N.S.).[9][10] The 2nd Earl's adoption of the motto is commemorated in a manuscript dated 1582.[11] Their successors—Earls and, later, Dukes of Bedford ("Sixth Creation"), as well as other aristocratic families—continued to use the motto. Soon after its adoption as a heraldic motto, it appeared in Christopher Marlowe's play Doctor Faustus (written ca. 1590; published 1604), whose text[12] (Act 1, Scene 1) contains a line with the archaic Italian spelling "Che sera, sera / What will be, shall be".[13] Early in the 17th century the saying begins to appear in the speech and thoughts of fictional characters as a spontaneous expression of a fatalistic attitude.

The saying is always in an English-speaking context, and has no history in Spain, Italy, or France, and in fact is ungrammatical in all three Romance languages.[14] It is composed of Spanish or Italian words superimposed on English syntax. It was evidently formed by a word-for-word mistranslation of English "What will be will be", merging the free relative pronoun what (= "that which") with the interrogative what?[15]

Livingston and Evans had some knowledge of Spanish, and early in their career they worked together as musicians on cruise ships to the Caribbean and South America. Composer Jay Livingston had seen the 1954 Hollywood film The Barefoot Contessa, in which a fictional Italian family has the motto "Che sarà sarà" carved in stone at their ancestral mansion. He immediately wrote it down as a possible song title, and he and lyricist Ray Evans later gave it a Spanish spelling "because there are so many Spanish-speaking people in the world".[16][17][18]

In modern times, thanks to the popularity of the song and its many translations, the phrase has been adopted in countries around the world to name a variety of entities, including books, movies, restaurants, vacation rentals, airplanes, and race horses.[19]
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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-05, 6:24

Indeed, "quel sera sera" makes no sense in French, either. "That which/Whatever will be" would have to be ce qui sera AFAIK.
OldBoring wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:Really? I remember someone telling me they were banned from a language-specific forum. Maybe the moderator just told them that, though.

Really? Whoa.

Yep.
Ser is still studying Hokkien. Right? So...there's nothing stopping me from helping him with it, is there?

Will you continue this study group if it's only the two of you?

Sure! I think most of our current study groups are only two people, after all. But I need input from Ser first! :P

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby dEhiN » 2018-07-05, 15:39

vijayjohn wrote:Indeed, "quel sera sera" makes no sense in French, either. "That which/Whatever will be" would have to be ce qui sera AFAIK.
'
Je pense que c'est correct aussi : ce qui sera, sera.
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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby OldBoring » 2018-07-05, 21:02

Oh fuck... I've also been sure that it was originally a French song, not some English song with a broken Spanish expression. Probably because when I was a child I had only heard the Italian version and the French one.

Btw I never interpreted it as "what will be, will be", but as "che sarà?" (what will it be?"), and the "sarà" word at end repeated like an echo.

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby dEhiN » 2018-07-05, 21:33

OldBoring wrote:Btw I never interpreted it as "what will be, will be", but as "che sarà?" (what will it be?"), and the "sarà" word at end repeated like an echo.

What would "what will be, will be" be in Italian?
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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby OldBoring » 2018-07-05, 22:14

I would say "quel che sarà, sarà" or "ciò che sarà, sarà".

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby dEhiN » 2018-07-06, 13:16

OldBoring wrote:I would say "quel che sarà, sarà" or "ciò che sarà, sarà".

What's the difference between quel and ciò?
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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby księżycowy » 2018-07-06, 14:43

I'm amused by the current conversation.

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Re: Hokkien Study Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-08, 3:04

Still waiting for Ser to say something :doggy:


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