Hokkien Study Group

[księżycowy]

Hello,
This is a thread for an attempt to get a group study for Taiwanese/Hokkien going. So far a few of us have expressed interest in learning some Taiwanese/Hokkien, but anyone else that wants to join in at any point is more than welcome!

The main idea of this thread is to post what we'll be working on during any given week, and to have a place to talk, ask questions, and get help among the members of the study group.

After some careful deliberation, I would like to go through the Spoken Amoy Hokkien (abbreviated: SAH) and Spoken Taiwanese (abbreviated: ST) textbooks by Bodman, if that's ok with everyone else. Feel free to speak up if you want to use another textbook, and we can discuss it.

I'm just suggesting this because so far everyone has said they don't care which textbook we start with, and because I've been staring at this textbook on my book shelve for a long time.

I am more than willing to use another textbook though!

Anyway, provided there are no objections to the textbook, I propose starting to go through the first dialogue in SAH. Say, sentences 1-20? Does that sound reasonable to everyone else?

Weekly Assignments (Due Wednesdays):
Week 1: Sound Drills 1 & 2, Spoken Amoy Hokkien
Week 2: Unit 1, Basic Sentences 1-10, Spoken Amoy Hokkien

[vijayjohn]

So you finally decided to go with SAH and ST instead of TME? That's fine with me. I can read SAH in the bathroom or whatever. In fact, I think I'll go do a bit of that pretty soon.

Sentences 1-20...so you mean on pages 8-9, right? (I'm going to assume you do unless you reply saying otherwise ).

[księżycowy]

My edition has the sentences numbered (sentences, not vocabulary), I assume your edition does too. I can't tell you which page numbers atm, but once I get home I can.

And someone had to make a decision. I've been wanting to use resources I already have before getting into new ones too, so.... Yeah, SAH it is.

I also like the fact that the audio to SAH has English too (for the first few lessons anyway, eventually they switch to only Hokkien on the audio), so it can truely be an audio only course. For a bit anyway.

[vijayjohn]

My edition has the sentences numbered (sentences, not vocabulary), I assume your edition does too.

Yes, of course. But this isn't the only part that has sentences numbered from 1 to 20.

I can't tell you which page numbers atm, but once I get home I can.

Here's a(n alternative?) question that might be easier to answer: Do you mean Unit 1? ("Basic Sentences, Getting around"?)

And someone had to make a decision.

And I did! Lol jk

I also like the fact that the audio to SAH has English too (for the first few lessons anyway, eventually they switch to only Hokkien on the audio), so it can truely be an audio only course. For a bit anyway.

Are you still going to be converting stuff to Peh-oe-ji, though? Is it okay if I try to go ahead and do that instead and/or convert it to Hàn-lô and/or Taiwanese-specific Chinese characters?

Currently, I'm having real trouble making sense of huì-sín+ e, listed above sentence #13 as meaning 'pardon me; may I trouble you, please' because I can't seem to find any evidence of such a phrase in any other source for Hokkien, let alone what Chinese characters it might correspond to.

[księżycowy]

Yes, sorry. Sentences 1-20 of Unit 1 "Getting Around."

And yes, I'm still thinking of retyping the lessons into POJ. Actually, I started a Google Doc to that end for both SAH and ST. Any help in this in most appreciated! I'm happy to share links to them both.

[vijayjohn]

Please do!

Now for me to remind myself what the differences are between Bodman's system and POJ, especially so I can hopefully look up huì-sín+ e. That stupid phrase is gonna drive me nuts all day.

[księżycowy]

I'd guess hói-sîn+ e

[vijayjohn]

No, POJ doesn't have <oi>, only <oe>, so I'd guess hóe-sîn--e, but then the only thing I get if I look up hóe-sîn in Wiktionary is 火神 'god of fire'.

[księżycowy]

Ah, right and it's possible I got the tones wrong too. Bodman likes to give the actual tones (as in, the sandhi tones, rather than the original "isolation" tones).

Try h-sîn--e. <ui> exists in POJ.

Edit: I found it in the Maryknoll dictionary here and here, and also in the MOE dictionary (second link).

Also, I just moved those two Google Docs to the shared Hokkien folder.
Maybe if we work on the re-typing of Bodman well enough we won't have to scan anything.
Any changes you want to make are also welcome to what I've done so far (which isn't much).

[vijayjohn]

Ah, right and it's possible I got the tones wrong too. Bodman likes to give the actual tones (as in, the sandhi tones, rather than the original "isolation" tones).

Makes sense!

Try h-sîn--e. <ui> exists in POJ.

Edit: I found it in the Maryknoll dictionary here and here, and also in the MOE dictionary (second link).

Thanks! I finally found it in the Maryknoll dictionary. That appears to be the right POJ transcription. I'm guessing Maryknoll uses POJ, right?

Also, I just moved those two Google Docs to the shared Hokkien folder.
Maybe if we work on the re-typing of Bodman well enough we won't have to scan anything.
Any changes you want to make are also welcome to what I've done so far (which isn't much).

Thanks, but you need to give me edit access to them first.

[księżycowy]

Thanks! I finally found it in the Maryknoll dictionary. That appears to be the right POJ transcription. I'm guessing Maryknoll uses POJ, right?

Yes, Maryknoll used POJ.

Thanks, but you need to give me edit access to them first.

I guess I assumed it'd automatically give editing rights. I seem to have guessed wrong.
Hold on, I'll fix it.

EDIT: I'm hoping it's fixed now. Let me know.

[vijayjohn]

It is. Thanks, Anonymous Goose, if that is your real name!

[księżycowy]

No, that's some weird shit that shows up sometimes. That's not me.

[vijayjohn]

Oh pfft. Well, I know your real name now anyway.

Hmm, now I'm confused about the word for 'sir'. Wiktionary has it as sian-siⁿ / sin-seⁿ / sian-seⁿ / sian-seng, but Bodman says siān-sî: and uses sian-sî: only in some sandhi contexts like Lím+ sian-si:. Maybe that's a dialect difference or something?

[księżycowy]

Could be.

Oh pfft. Well, I know your real name now anyway.

Are you going to stalk me now...?

[vijayjohn]

So Wiktionary says thài-thài, and Bodman says thaì-thaǐ.

Uhh...

I guess in POJ that would be thái-thài.

That's a lot of Thai.

[księżycowy]

That's why I use the Maryknoll and MOE dictionaries. They use POJ so there's no question of how things are spelled.

[vijayjohn]

Done!

食
未
食未
食未？
你
食， 你食未？
先生
先生， 食未？
林先生
先生娘
林先生娘
太太
林太太
小姐
譚小姐
譚先生， 食未？
啦
呢
食啦， 你呢？
佇
佗落
佇佗落
佇佗落？
旅店
旅店佇佗落？
這
位
這位
這位先生...
費神的
這位先生， 費神的， 旅店佇佗落？
什麼
什麼旅店？
廈門
廈門旅店。
頭前
佇頭前
廈門旅店佇頭前。
間
一
一間
佗落一間
是
佗落一間是廈門旅店？
這間
這間是廈門旅店。
呀
毋
毋是
是...呀毋是
這間是廈門旅店呀毋是？
彼
彼間
毋是這間， 是彼間。 是頭前彼間。

[księżycowy]

You're not putting that in the Google doc??
Or did you already?

[vijayjohn]

I thought the Google Doc was for POJ.