księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

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księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-14, 21:35

Hey all,
This is going to be my thread for learning various Chinese varieties (hence the title of "trash bin" :P ). At this point I didn't want to make a new thread for each of them. I think I'll just keep posting notes/questions/translations here until it gets too busy.

Up for exploration are (in no particular order): Taiwanese, Cantonese, Taishanese, Mandarin, Shanghainese, and Hakka. No, not all at once, but just to list all the varieties I'm interested in.

On that note, up first in the queue is Taiwanese.
I'll be using the textbook Harvard Taiwanese 101 by Yeh and Lee, and focusing exclusively on spoken Taiwanese for now (though I'd love to eventually learn now to read and write it). After I get through this text, I'll either switch to Spoken Amoy Hokkien and Spoken Taiwanese (both by Bodman), or switch to another Chinese variety.

As Harvard Taiwanese 101 doesn't like to give very much by way of actual grammar explanations, I'll be posting my observations/questions/suspicions here as I work my way through the book. I thought it might be fun to kinda steal Karavinka's idea for Turkish and Thai. (Though I might be more apt to accept/ask for help. :lol: )

Lesson 1 coming soon~~ :wink:

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Re: księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-14, 23:47

Harvard Taiwanese Lesson 1 Grammar

1. Lāu-su, ........

From the Dialogues (which have translations, thank gawd):
Lāu-su, gâu-chá.
Good morning, sir.

Examples given (w/my translations, in so far as I could figure things out, 'cause a glossary at the end of the book is too much to ask for apparently):
Lāu-su, lí hó. (How are you, sir?)
Lāu-su, góa thaiⁿ bô. (I'm not listening, sir.)
Lāu-su, góa beh seng cháu. (I <something-something-something>, sir.)
Lāu-su, sit-lé. Góa tî-tò. (Excuse me, sir. I <something>.)
Lāu-su, góa ū būn-tê. Teacher, I have a question.

I assume this is just indicating that titles come at the beginning of a/certain sentence(s). We'll see if this happens across the board or not as we go.

2. ... ... bô/bōe (bē)?

From the Dialogues:
Chia̍h-pá bōe?
Have you eaten yet? (A greeting)

Góa kóng Tâi-oân-ōe; lí thiaⁿ ū bô?
I speak Taiwanese; Do you understand?

Án-ne thiaⁿ ū bô?
Then(?) do you understand? [Not sure if "then" is necessary there or not.]

Examples given:
Lí thiaⁿ ū bô? (Do you understand?)
Lí chia̍h pá bōe/bē? (Have you eaten yet?)
Lí hó bô? (Are you well?)
Chit-má hā-khò bōe/bē? (Is class over now?)
Lí pit-gia̍p bōe/bē? (Are you graduating?) [Not sure about the tense/phrasing here.]


It appears that bô & bōe/bē are forms of a question particle. At this point, I'm not sure why any particular form is used in any particular sentence.

I have three for grammar sections to go through, but I think I'll save that for tomorrow. This was a good enough start.
[I should probably also note that my default from romanizing Taiwanese is POJ, even though this textbook appears to use some form of the Tâilô romanization scheme. I have a nifty IME that allows me to easily type in Tâilô and end up with POJ. (It also will eventually let me type in Taiwanese characters, once I get that far too!)]

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Re: księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-15, 12:37

Oh, my God! I just found this: Taiwanese Made Easy!
Complete with pdf files of the lessons and audio for all 6 books (a total of 94 lessons!) (I'm including the pronunciation book in my numbers). And all of the texts include Chinese characters, for when I'm ready! Sweetness! :partyhat:

I was even thumbing through one of the later textbooks (Vol 4 to be exact), and apparently they teach you the characters! :shock: Woooo! :whoo:

I maybe switching textbooks yet again. :P

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Re: księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby azhong » 2018-05-17, 14:24

księżycowy wrote:
Lāu-su, gâu-chá.
Good morning, sir.
Lāu-su, lí hó. (How are you, sir?)
老師,你好
teacher you fine
sir, good day.

Lāu-su, góa thaiⁿ bô. (I'm not listening, sir.)
老師,我聽無。
Teacher, I listen no
sir, I do not understand.

Lāu-su, góa beh seng cháu. (I <something-something-something>, sir.)

Lāu-su, sit-lé. Góa tî-tò. (Excuse me, sir. I am late.)
老師,失禮,我遲到

Lāu-su, góa ū būn-tê. Teacher, I have a question.
老師,我有問題

2. ... ... bô/bōe (bē)?

From the Dialogues:
Chia̍h-pá bōe?
Have you eaten yet? (A greeting)

Góa kóng Tâi-oân-ōe; lí thiaⁿ ū bô?
I speak Taiwanese; Do you understand?

Án-ne thiaⁿ ū bô?
這樣, 聽有無?

Examples given:
Lí thiaⁿ ū bô? (Do you understand?)
Lí chia̍h pá bōe/bē? (Have you eaten yet?)
Lí hó bô? (Are you well?)
Chit-má hā-khò bōe/bē? (Is class over now?)
Lí pit-gia̍p bōe/bē? (Are you graduating?) [Not sure about the tense/phrasing here.]

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Re: księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-17, 14:30

I haven't quite learned how to say it in Taiwanese yet, so here it is in English: thank you! :D

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Re: księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby księżycowy » 2018-05-23, 22:34

Ok, so I've largely decided to leave Harvard Taiwanese 101 for later. The grammar explanations are far too abrupt, and there is vocabulary in the examples that is not covered in the lesson. Now I'm tossing around the idea of either going through Taiwanese Made Easier or Spoken Amoy Hokkien/ Spoken Taiwanese.

Which ever I choose, I'm going through the first dialogue in both. :P

As far as POJ is concerned: I have to say, from a practical English speaking stand-point, I will never understand why the second tone (which is a high falling tone) is represented by á. It always tricks me into thinking it's a low/mid raising tone. :P

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Re: księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-13, 4:44

księżycowy wrote:As far as POJ is concerned: I have to say, from a practical English speaking stand-point, I will never understand why the second tone (which is a high falling tone) is represented by á. It always tricks me into thinking it's a low/mid raising tone. :P

What diacritic(s) would you use to distinguish a high falling tone from a low falling tone?

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Re: księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby OldBoring » 2018-07-13, 6:11

Maybe à for high falling, and the grave accent under the letter for low falling, but I'm not sure if this is allowed with current computer fonts. :P

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Re: księżyc - 垃圾桶 / 糞埽桶

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-13, 12:27

That's pretty clever, actually. I'm sure that could be developed as a computer font over time.


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