王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

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王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-11-18, 8:51

这是我至今在这个论坛所有犯的错误。 :?: 用箭头标记的那些句子都是我至少一次写对过的。 :?:

-> [...]错误 (而不是*做错误)

声调 (不是*发音声调)

小时候我... (不是*小时候我...)

第一个 (不是*最初的 :P

-> 神父 (不是 ?神职人员)

寺庙 (不是 ?庙宇)

-> 总是
或者 (每次...)都...的 (不是*总是都)

-> 听不到
或者 没听到 (不是*不听)

-> 小包 (不是*小龙包)

子秆儿 (不是*耗子杆儿! 他妈的拼音输入法!别相信它的提示! :lol:

经常的意思是常常而已。 :P

猜想
-> 或者 猜测 (大概比“假设”更好)

刚开始学习而已 (不是 ?我只有开始学习)

-> 不要上学了 (比“不要去学校了”更好)

资源有限 = resources are limited
设备有效 = equipment is effective :lol:
-> 已经用过“资源”这条词, 还没用过“有限”

有 (不是*家庭有)

-> 有一名神父 (不是*有神父)

争取 (有时候比“尽力”更好)

已经读博 (不是*已经读博)

我“进修资格” (不是*让我“进修资格”)
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2014-11-22, 9:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby azhong » 2014-11-19, 3:31

vijayjohn wrote:这是我至今在这个论坛所有 犯 (过) (betted added) 的错误。 :?: 用箭头标记的那些句子都是我至少 一次 写对过的。 :?:

声调 (不是*发音声调)(I think 发音声调 is not that wrong. where is the sentence?)

神父 (不是 ?神职人员)(神职人员 include 神父, sisters, etc. )

寺庙 (不是 ?庙宇)(庙宇is okey to me. depending on the sentence.)

-> 总是
或者 (每次...)都...的 (不是*总是都)(总是都 is very good. where is the sentence? )

子秆儿 (不是*耗子杆儿! 他妈的 可惡的, less uncultured 拼音输入法!别相信它的提示! :lol:

猜想
-> 或者 猜测 (大概比“假设”更好)假设 usually means assume

刚开始学习 (而已) (不是 ?我只有开始学习)or also, 我 开始学习

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby Pangu » 2014-11-19, 3:44

azhong wrote:...depending on the sentence.

I agree with azhong. Most of your "wrongs" aren't actually absolutely wrong. It's just depends on the sentence and context. :)

azhong wrote:他妈的 可惡的, less uncultured

For the average person, especially one that is educated, you should avoid using 他媽的. It's actually pretty vulgar. IMHO it's best to avoid using any curses but as azhong has suggested, 可惡的 (despicable) would be much more acceptable.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-11-19, 10:11

谢谢你们的帮助! :)
azhong wrote:声调 (不是*发音声调)(I think 发音声调 is not that wrong. where is the sentence?)

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=28595&start=20#p964779
寺庙 (不是 ?庙宇)(庙宇is okey to me. depending on the sentence.)

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=42311&start=20#p948006
-> 总是
或者 (每次...)都...的 (不是*总是都)(总是都 is very good. where is the sentence? )

详见这个帖子
我楼下的人以前发帖发帖以前总是都预览他的帖子。


如果用“总是”,就不能用“都”。如果用“都”,句子的最后要加“的”。
可以写这两种句子:

1. 我楼下的人发帖以前总是预览他的帖子。
2. 我楼下的人发帖以前都预览他的帖子的。

或者:
我楼下的人每次发帖以前都要预览它。


------

更多错误:

绝对不想家 (不是 *我一定不想家)

我的问题完全不同/完全不同 (不是 *我的问题完全不同的)

住在家里而想出去 (比 ...想出去 更好)
Last edited by vijayjohn on 2014-11-19, 20:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby Pangu » 2014-11-19, 17:47

vijayjohn wrote:我的问题完全不同/完全不同 (不是 *我的问题完全不同的)

Yes, this one is absolutely correct. This is the 是... 的 sentence structure usually taught in level 1 Chinese classes :)

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby Ser » 2014-11-19, 19:57

The mistake, though, is that clutch that two-syllable adjectives are generally followed by 的 de...

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-11-19, 20:03

Nope, that's not why. It's because I'm pretty sure I've actually seen native speakers consider 是 in such constructions optional.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby Pangu » 2014-11-19, 20:32

vijayjohn wrote:Nope, that's not why. It's because I'm pretty sure I've actually seen native speakers consider 是 in such constructions optional.

As a native speaker myself, I can't imagine myself saying "我的问题完全不同的" without the 是 in there. It's just awkward for me.

With that said, it's unfortunate that not every "native speaker" speak correctly, it's the same in every language. Also some of the so-called "native speakers" may not have Mandarin as their true native tongue.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-11-19, 20:41

Without getting into the debate about whether native speakers' judgments are necessarily correct or not...
Pangu wrote:As a native speaker myself, I can't imagine myself saying "我的问题完全不同的" without the 是 in there. It's just awkward for me.

Which is fine. But what it doesn't tell me is whether all instances of 是...的 require the 是. I'm not necessarily saying I've ever heard people saying 我的问题完全不同的, but I'm pretty sure I've seen them saying other things where they could have used 是...的 but didn't include 是. I'm not even sure whether you'd consider those sentences ungrammatical, but unfortunately, I can't remember right now where I've seen that before, so I can't reproduce the examples here yet.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby Pangu » 2014-11-19, 23:12

vijayjohn wrote:Which is fine. But what it doesn't tell me is whether all instances of 是...的 require the 是. I'm not necessarily saying I've ever heard people saying 我的问题完全不同的, but I'm pretty sure I've seen them saying other things where they could have used 是...的 but didn't include 是. I'm not even sure whether you'd consider those sentences ungrammatical, but unfortunately, I can't remember right now where I've seen that before, so I can't reproduce the examples here yet.

If you use the 是... 的 sentence structure (which has a specific purpose) then you must have the 是. With that said, it is definitely possible to have a sentence ending with 的 without 是 but it won't be a 是... 的 sentence structure. Examples below:

我們不可以吃他的 - Here the object belong to "him" is either previously stated or understood.

However, a 是... 的 sentence structure would be like examples below:

那是他的

他的鞋子都是黑的

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-11-20, 1:40

OK, thanks. :)

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby azhong » 2014-11-20, 14:02

I did not look the massages above over carefully. I believe Pangu can take over very well and can give you better help.

Keep going ahead, John.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby OldBoring » 2014-11-21, 13:14

Since I corrected most of vijayjohn's mistakes in "the person after me" game, I apologize if I did not make some corrections correctly.
Especially it's my fault, that I didn't know the word 庙宇 and I didn't look it up on dictionaries. But instead corrected it with the more common word 寺庙。Although, 庙宇 is not wrong either.

Pangu and azhong, if you think that my corrections in the context were not right or you have better alternative, please suggest them.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby azhong » 2014-11-27, 14:13

azhong wrote:声调 (不是*发音声调)(I think 发音声调 is not that wrong. where is the sentence?)
Youngfun wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:我不会说广州话。其实,我想说广州话的时候,广州人有时候什么都不说,有时候批评我, 因为我还不会发广州话的声调。
發音 here sounds like a noun, "pronunciation". That's why it was corrected.

寺庙 (不是 ?庙宇)(庙宇is okey to me. depending on the sentence.)
Youngfun wrote:今天我买了一只可爱的小猫。
vijayjohn wrote:职人员问了: “你为什么带他来我的教堂,而不带到你的?” :?:

Ya, indeed 寺廟 is a better candidate here, and 廟宇 seem not to work at all. I do not know how to explain...

-> 总是
或者 (每次...)都...的 (不是*总是都)(总是都 is very good. where is the sentence? )
我楼下的人以前发帖发帖以前总是都预览他的帖子。

如果用“总是”,就不能用“都”。如果用“都”,句子的最后要加“的”。
可以写这两种句子:
1. 我楼下的人发帖以前总是预览他的帖子。
2. 我楼下的人发帖以前都预览他的帖子的。
或者:
我楼下的人每次发帖以前都要预览它。
Basically, "總是" and "都" are synonyms, either one of them is enough. But it is not uncommon to see them appear together.

However, my opinion will be a bit different from Youngfun in his sentence 2. I think 的 is not a must and can be omitted too.
2. 我楼下的人发帖以前都预览他的帖子(的)。

This might due to some minor difference between Taiwanese madarin and Mainland China Mandarin. It's very minor, anyway.

@Youngfun: To me, you are a very good mod. I am very glad you are with us. I will try my best to share the burden.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby Pangu » 2014-11-27, 20:48

azhong wrote:
我楼下的人以前发帖发帖以前总是都预览他的帖子。

如果用“总是”,就不能用“都”。如果用“都”,句子的最后要加“的”。
可以写这两种句子:
1. 我楼下的人发帖以前总是预览他的帖子。
2. 我楼下的人发帖以前都预览他的帖子的。
或者:
我楼下的人每次发帖以前都要预览它。
Basically, "總是" and "都" are synonyms, either one of them is enough. But it is not uncommon to see them appear together.

However, my opinion will be a bit different from Youngfun in his sentence 2. I think 的 is not a must and can be omitted too.
2. 我楼下的人发帖以前都预览他的帖子(的)。

This might due to some minor difference between Taiwanese madarin and Mainland China Mandarin. It's very minor, anyway.

@Youngfun: To me, you are a very good mod. I am very glad you are with us. I will try my best to share the burden.

I have never heard of the rule that if you use 都 then you must use 的. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about Mandarin so do you mind sharing any kind of source stating that is a legit sentence structure. A quick search yielded nothing for me.

I have a slightly different opinion than both Youngfun and azhong:

我楼下的人发帖以前预览他的帖子 and 我楼下的人发帖以前总是预览他的帖子 both seem awkward to me.

我楼下的人每次发帖以前都要预览它 seem more natural to me. However, I would even further improve it to: 我樓下的人每次發帖以前都會(先)預覽 它/一下/一次。

The 會 here implies "will" or "would" to make the sentence more fluid. The 先 may be redundant because 預覽 already implies the idea.

I am not saying I am absolutely right. In fact, I'd be happy to be proven wrong because I know my Mandarin has room for improvement having lived overseas for so long :P

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby OldBoring » 2014-11-28, 5:39

Pangu wrote:I have never heard of the rule that if you use 都 then you must use 的. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about Mandarin so do you mind sharing any kind of source stating that is a legit sentence structure. A quick search yielded nothing for me.

In fact... it's not a rule. I have not studied Chinese grammar. That's only my personal preference. I always add "的" when I use "都" in the sense of "always/usually". While not necessarily if I mean "all of us/all y'all/all of them".

E.g.
我们习惯了,我们都来这家餐厅吃饭的。(We are accustomed, we always eat at this restaurant.)
昨天我们都来这家餐厅吃饭了。(Yesterday we all ate at this restaurant.)

I also agree with you that your version is more natural.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby azhong » 2014-11-28, 14:49

Youngfun wrote:我们习惯了,我们都来这家餐厅吃饭 (的)。(We are accustomed, we always eat at this restaurant.)
昨天我们都来这家餐厅吃饭了。(Yesterday we all ate at this restaurant.)
Again, the 的 can be either omitted or kept. Both are correct to me.
Pangu wrote:I have a slightly different opinion than both Youngfun and azhong:
我楼下的人发帖以前都预览他的帖子 and 我楼下的人发帖以前总是预览他的帖子 both seem awkward to me.
Both are fine to me.
Pangu wrote:我楼下的人每次发帖以前都 (要) 预览它 seem more natural to me.
I think 要 can be either added or skipped. Both are correct.
Pangu wrote: However, I would even further improve it to: 我樓下的人 (每次) 發帖以前 都 (會)(先)預覽 (它)/(一下)/(一次)。

In your sentence, Pangu, if you analyze it carefully, you might find that 每次...都 can also be simplified as 都, since 每次 has been hinted. And 先 can be hinted by 以前. And 會 can be omitted actually, and so is 它. And 一下 or 一次 can also be omitted. Basically both of your sentences are correct; Pangu's is more oral and more fluid indeed, while YoungFun's is more literal since it's more concise.
That's my opinion. I hope the non-native speakers will not be confused by us three.

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby Pangu » 2014-11-28, 21:12

azhong wrote:
Pangu wrote: However, I would even further improve it to: 我樓下的人 (每次) 發帖以前 都 (會)(先)預覽 (它)/(一下)/(一次)。

In your sentence, Pangu, if you analyze it carefully, you might find that 每次...都 can also be simplified as 都, since 每次 has been hinted. And 先 can be hinted by 以前. And 會 can be omitted actually, and so is 它. And 一下 or 一次 can also be omitted. Basically both of your sentences are correct; Pangu's is more oral and more fluid indeed, while YoungFun's is more literal since it's more concise.
That's my opinion. I hope the non-native speakers will not be confused by us three.

Good point regarding the redundancy!

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-03-12, 21:25

azhong wrote:I hope the non-native speakers will not be confused by us three.

I don't think so, but I'll try to let you know if I have any questions. Thanks! :)

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Re: 王建国(vijayjohn) - 中文

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-04-09, 3:58

(-你经常吃...一些印度的甜品。)

-我...只吃某些甜品。(不是*一些甜品)


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