Dungan (Хуэйзў йүян)

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Re: Dungan (Хуэйзў йүян)

Postby atalarikt » 2018-03-21, 5:47

I've found a Dungan-Russian dictionary in PDF from the Institute for Bible Translation Russia.
وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ فِي ذَٰلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِلْعَالِمِينَ۝
"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." (Ar-Rum: 22)

Jika saya salah, mohon diperbaiki. If I make some mistake(s), please correct me.
Forever indebted to Robert A. Blust for his contributions to Austronesian linguistics

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Re: Dungan (Хуэйзў йүян)

Postby Peadar » 2018-04-09, 18:47

The Dungan language is a collective name for some north-west Mandarin dialects, especially those spoken by the hanese muslims(or officially called 回族 huizu) among the turkic populations like Uigur, Kazakh and Kyrgyz. The language contains several accents, but basically intelligible with each other from Kazakhstan, Siberia to Xinjiang, Gansu, Shaanxi.

One of them is even turklized grammartically. It's called the Tangwang dialect 唐汪話
Usually, the hanese is an SVO language, for example:
Wo du shu - I read a book
Wo chi fan - I eat a meal

(Some people consider that 把字句 "the ba 把 sentence" as an SOV pattern and a result of the influence of the altaic languages, but, it's actually wrong. The ba sentence is actually a pattern of the present perfect tense that came out around the medieval period in the vulgar middle chinese which we'll talk about later.)

But in the Tangwang dialect, these sentennces could be translated as:
書哈 ʂu-xa du - I read a book
飯哈 fɛ̃-xə tʂʼɭ - I eat a meal
The suffix -xa/xə is said that it is derived from the turkic dative suffix -qa/ke.

So, what's "the ba sentence" in Mandarin?
I've mentioned that it's actually the present perfect tense of the chinese language, let's take a look at an example first:
讀完Wo ba shu du wan le - I have read the book
吃完Wo ba fan chi wan le - I have eaten the meal
把 doesn't function as verb nowadays, so some people think it's an auxiliary word instead. But the word was a verb in ancient chinese which meant "to hold an object in your hand", which is similar to the auxiliary verb "have" in English(or the west germanic language) both in meaning and function.

The auxiliary word 了 le expresses the sense of the preterite tense:
我讀書 I read a book
我吃飯 I ate a meal
In this case, the object is not determined. This brings us the feeling of the finnish partive case while the ba sentence is giving the sense of the accusative case.

The word 完 functions as the adverb "out", literally, "read the book out", "eat the meal out". It usually comes with 把.

So, when Tangwang expresses the sense of the perfect tense, the verb combines with an adverb and the auxiliary word 了.
我飯哈吃完了 Və fɛ̃-xə tʂʼɭ-wan-liɔ - I have eaten the meal
我羊哈捉住了 Və jɔ̃-xa tʂua-tʂu-liɔ - I have captured the goat

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Re: Dungan (Хуэйзў йүян)

Postby OldBoring » 2018-04-16, 7:46

哈 is sometimes xa sometimes xə... vowel harmony?

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Re: Dungan (Хуэйзў йүян)

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-13, 4:28

Peadar wrote:The Dungan language is a collective name for some north-west Mandarin dialects, especially those spoken by the hanese muslims(or officially called 回族 huizu) among the turkic populations like Uigur, Kazakh and Kyrgyz.

Do you have a source for this definition? Because I've never seen it anywhere. In any case, I think it's pretty clear that we're talking about something a lot more specific than just anything spoken in northwestern China.
One of them is even turklized grammartically. It's called the Tangwang dialect 唐汪話

As interesting as all this information about Tangwang is, Tangwang AFAIK has nothing to do with Dungan. It's a mixed language combining Mandarin Chinese with Santa, which is Mongolic, not Turkic.

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Re: Dungan (Хуэйзў йүян)

Postby OldBoring » 2018-07-13, 6:05

Dungan is spoken by Hui people (in fact they call their own language 回族语言) but not all Hui speak Dungan.
I think Dungan is only the language spoken by the Hui Chinese who moved to Central Asia in the Qing Dynasty, but I'm not sure either.

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Re: Dungan (Хуэйзў йүян)

Postby vijayjohn » 2018-07-13, 12:25

OldBoring wrote:I think Dungan is only the language spoken by the Hui Chinese who moved to Central Asia in the Qing Dynasty, but I'm not sure either.

Well, they also speak Russian. :mrgreen:


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