How to learn Chinese

Moderator:OldBoring

How should you learn Chinese?

Learn the written and spoken language at the same time
25
76%
Learn the spoken language first (and pinyin), then proceed to learn the characters
5
15%
Learn the spoken language only (no need to be able to read/write)
1
3%
Learn the written language only (no need to be able to speak it)
1
3%
Learn the written language first, then proceed to learn the spoken language
1
3%
 
Total votes: 33

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Pangu
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Re: How to learn Chinese

Postby Pangu » 2013-09-16, 22:37

linguoboy wrote:
Pangu wrote:
hedwards wrote:I assume that's partially because of the difficulty of looking up characters you don't know.

It would no more difficult than looking up any word you don't know in any language. It's even easier if you have a smartphone :mrgreen:

Nonsense, it's considerably more difficult. I've been using Chinese dictionaries for ages and I still stumble. Just yesterday I spent ten minutes trying to track down a character that it turned out I already knew because the "hand" radical was written in such a way that it resembled 才 and I didn't realise there didn't exist such a character.

You're right, just because I've never had any problems looking up characters it doesn't mean others won't.

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linguoboy
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Re: How to learn Chinese

Postby linguoboy » 2013-09-17, 0:22

Pangu wrote:You're right, just because I've never had any problems looking up characters it doesn't mean others won't.

I've actually wanted for years to give a workshop at work on how to use a Chinese dictionary. I think it's something several of my colleagues would be interested in knowing but they simply don't know where to begin.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

hedwards
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Re: How to learn Chinese

Postby hedwards » 2013-09-17, 22:14

Pangu wrote:
hedwards wrote:I should have mentioned it in my previous post, but the literacy figures being what they are is probably the driving force behind the government's push to have pinyin included on signs. I saw that even in areas where foreigners rarely go.

China has a literacy rate of 92.2%, it's not the best but it's relatively high for a developing country.

I, too, have noticed Pinyin in signage while traveling in China. However, they are rare and tend to be older, maybe from a few decades ago when China's literacy rate was lower?


Nope, it's current. And the reason for it is that it's incredibly difficult to look up words if you're not already literate. And as Linguoboy says, even for native speakers and individuals who are literate it can be challenging to look up words.

The main reason being that you don't necessarily know which radical they're using to index the character and you have to know the character in order to know how many strokes the character has. McGraw Hill has the best dictionary I've seen for people that haven't mastered that. They break the strokes if they turn 90 degrees or sharply. Looking up a character then becomes an issue of looking up the top-left most stroke and looking for the character with the number of strokes you have.

Apart from using something like Plecco or asking somebody else, it's really the only sane method.


Pangu wrote:
hedwards wrote:I assume that's partially because of the difficulty of looking up characters you don't know.

It would no more difficult than looking up any word you don't know in any language. It's even easier if you have a smartphone :mrgreen:


With a smart phone it's possible to look up characters, but without one it's a catch 22. You have to be able to read in order to look up the characters. And even with a smartphone you're not necessarily guaranteed to find the entry if it's a stylized character. Which happens a lot in my experience.

One of the scariest things about China is that you can't just look up a character, you'll be walking around and see warning signs and hope that the sign doesn't convey information that you really need, because trying to figure out the meaning is a lost cause without being literate.

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Pangu
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Re: How to learn Chinese

Postby Pangu » 2013-09-19, 12:04

linguoboy wrote:
Pangu wrote:You're right, just because I've never had any problems looking up characters it doesn't mean others won't.

I've actually wanted for years to give a workshop at work on how to use a Chinese dictionary. I think it's something several of my colleagues would be interested in knowing but they simply don't know where to begin.

Workshop? What is there to learn?

If we're talking about a traditional print dictionary, AFAIK there are only two COMMON ways, phonetic (either Pinyin or Zhuyin) and by radical and number of strokes.

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Pangu
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Re: How to learn Chinese

Postby Pangu » 2013-09-19, 12:09

hedwards wrote:One of the scariest things about China is that you can't just look up a character, you'll be walking around and see warning signs and hope that the sign doesn't convey information that you really need, because trying to figure out the meaning is a lost cause without being literate.

I definitely don't share your opinion on this. But if that's how you feel then I recommend you don't ever go to China. Just stay where you are so you don't have to be constantly filled with fear... lol

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linguoboy
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Re: How to learn Chinese

Postby linguoboy » 2013-09-19, 21:01

Pangu wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Pangu wrote:You're right, just because I've never had any problems looking up characters it doesn't mean others won't.

I've actually wanted for years to give a workshop at work on how to use a Chinese dictionary. I think it's something several of my colleagues would be interested in knowing but they simply don't know where to begin.

Workshop? What is there to learn?

You answer your own question:
Pangu wrote:If we're talking about a traditional print dictionary, AFAIK there are only two COMMON ways, phonetic (either Pinyin or Zhuyin) and by radical and number of strokes.

As hedwards says, it's not at all intuitive what part of the character is the radical; you need to be taught how to identify them. And the same is true of number of strokes. Try this: ask some people you know who aren't literate in Chinese how many strokes there are in 弓 or 母 or 國 and see how many different replies you get. (The only way I can remember myself most of the time is literally to draw the stroke in the air with my finger, counting as I go.)

The phonetic index only works if you already know the pronunciation. That's the catch-22 hedwards is talking about. In addition, there are other methods. The first dictionary I ever used was indexed by initial stroke and total stroke count. But again, you have to know something about how Chinese characters are written, and the classification of all possible strokes into only four or five categories can again be--there's that word again!--very intuitive for non-literates.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

WASSUPIDIOTS
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Re: How to learn Chinese

Postby WASSUPIDIOTS » 2021-12-17, 9:08

chinese is alright. I mean, that's an obvious response coming from a native but really.....
It's loads better than German. When you understand how to read PinYin and master most basic words and phrases your good to go. because in mandarin, the patterns are easily discovered.

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Re: How to learn Chinese

Postby vijayjohn » 2022-02-11, 1:02

I think I'll abstain from voting in the poll because I'm not sure I believe there is any one-size-fits-all approach to how you should learn Chinese. I think I've effectively ended up learning both the written language and the spoken language at the same time, though.


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