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I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-06, 20:01
by Shark of Capitalism
And outlawing alphabets is inceredible idiocy.
And outlawing alphabet of not own language is square of inceredible idiocy.

What do you think?

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-06, 20:23
by md0
I think not spamming is quite important for Unilang 🤷

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-06, 20:53
by Shark of Capitalism
md0 wrote:I think not spamming is quite important for Unilang 🤷

So please, try to not spam!

What is your reply for?
I'am asking quite simple question because now my impression is that nobody cares%%%%%


PS

md0 Posts: 7642 -- no spam, I'm sure)))))
Maybe you think that unified Turkic alphabet https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=57973 and the Crimean Tatar dictionary https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=57981 I have been working on for two years are spam too, don't you?

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 5:18
by Shark of Capitalism
So what do you think?

Some people say that alphabets are just matter of politics (somebody said that he just obeyed the orders) but outlawing alphabets is Stalin's nazi politics!

So people have the right to choose writing system as they want, what do you think?



GOD IS NOT IN POWER BUT IN TRUTH

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 7:01
by md0
Shark of Capitalism wrote:So what do you think?


I think you should stick on the original thread you opened about this topic, and not open duplicates every three days since the day you joined this forum.

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 7:55
by Shark of Capitalism
md0 wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:So what do you think?


I think you should stick on the original thread you opened about this topic, and not open duplicates every three days since the day you joined this forum.

It is called backseat moderating, isn't it?
Also it is obviuos that you cannot say anything that is why you are trying to "mentor" others... I appreciate that you have noticed my topics)))))
As well it is obviuos that you cannot read: despite my topics you so worry about (I think, not because of "reduplicating";)) are related to outlawing alphabets they are dedicated to the different aspect of the problem. For example here I just want to ask what do you(not you exactly but others) think about the problem itself! (Maybe linguists don't like alphabets themselves, just may not say it! Now they are allowed to))))))

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 8:11
by Shark of Capitalism
Nobody says that outlawing alphabets is human rights violation so maybe I just have missed something, so I want to ask: I think it is one of forums' aims: to get answers...

(f*ck: if it is not a topic of "Politics and Religion" section of linguistic forum, what is the more appropriate place to ask???)

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 9:45
by voron
Can you give examples of alphabet's outlawing so that we can discuss individual cases?

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 10:05
by Shark of Capitalism
voron wrote:Can you give examples of alphabet's outlawing so that we can discuss individual cases?

6. В Российской Федерации алфавиты государственного языка Российской Федерации и государственных языков республик строятся на графической основе кириллицы.It means that alphabets of literally dozens of languages should be based on cyrillic and only on cyrillic (in spite BTW of modern not church cyrillic font is based on latinLOL). https://lenta.ru/articles/2004/11/16/language/ -- It was forbidden to write in the Kazan Tatar language in latin script. This is what I call square of inceredible idiocy because politicians that outlawed latin script didn't even know Kazan Tatar and didn't want to...


But the question in general is important too: like the human rights declaration: we have the right or we haven't?

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 10:22
by Johanna
The minority languages of the Soviet Union were a bit of an oddity, to be honest.

First of all, most of those languages had not been written in any shape or form before, so that the Lenin Regime didn't just tell everyone to abandon their language in favor of Russian... It said "Learn to read and write in your native languate," a language that used the writing system of its closest relatives.

Then Stalin and Russification happened.

Honestly, in that light, those languages switching to the Cyrillic script was a very mild thing in comparison to the over-all Russification.

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 10:26
by Shark of Capitalism
So we are already "extremists" "nationalists" "terrorists" and maybe even "islamists" just because we write latin)))))

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 10:41
by Shark of Capitalism
Johanna wrote:The minority languages of the Soviet Union were a bit of an oddity, to be honest.

What do you mean?

Johanna wrote:First of all, most of those languages had not been written in any shape or form before

Turkic languages was written in Turkic runes from the AD VIIIth to the AD Xth century then in arabic script (it was in fact the common literary language: Ottoman Turkish is the closest example...)

Johanna wrote:a language that used the writing system of its closest relatives.

What do you mean?


The general question is still open: we have the right or we haven't?
Maybe if we are odd because somebody said so we have not right to choose writing system, right to live and so on...


BTW

Chinese language written by Dungan people in arabic script was turned into cyrillic too!

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 10:52
by Shark of Capitalism
Johanna wrote:Honestly, in that light, those languages switching to the Cyrillic script was a very mild thing in comparison to the over-all Russification.

But how can we stop Russification if we may not even choose writing system?!
To stop Russification means to learn native language by adults. It means that nobody would dedicate all time to you like mother and proper alphabets in this case are very important. I can say for sure for cyrillic Turkic alphabets that they are only suitable for people that already know the language: imagine Swedish in cyrillic script! BTW we have couple of Swedish villages here in Ukraine, maybe Swedish is odd too, what do you think? It looks like a sort of phrasebook where we are trying to express one language in the terms of another but not to learn it in fact

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 10:58
by Shark of Capitalism
Johanna wrote:the Lenin Regime didn't just tell everyone to abandon their language in favor of Russian... It said "Learn to read and write in your native languate,"

They murdered all Ukrainian bards in AD 1920s... "Learn to read and write comministic propaganda" I would say.

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 11:11
by Shark of Capitalism
Johanna wrote:most of those languages had not been written in any shape or form before
Codex Cumanicus by European missioners was written in Crimea in the AD XIIIth century, so Turkic latin tradition is quite old. By the way Crimean Goths integrated themselves to the Crimean Tatar nation so we are a little bit Scandinavians too))))) Remembering that Ancient Ruthenia was ruled by Scandianvian lords ----


PS

They turned Tajiks' Persian into cyrillic too: no writing system at allLOL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ ... rizmi#Life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna#Early_life
-- modern Uzbekistan.

Maybe arabic numbers, algorithms and so on are "a bit of an oddity" too, what do you think?


F*ck: I would be funny to be banned from linguistic forum for saying that alphabets are quite important for linguists)))))

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 12:36
by Synalepha
Shark of Capitalism wrote:I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists


Why?

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 12:47
by Shark of Capitalism
Synalepha wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists


Why?

Maybe because they are somehow related to languages as well as linguists!
Do you know, how?

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 12:51
by Shark of Capitalism
Shark of Capitalism wrote:imagine Swedish in cyrillic script

Enjoy: http://svspb.net/html/svparlor.php#1

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 13:27
by Shark of Capitalism
Also the article I mentioned states that most of the people were illiterate. As to Kazan Tatars it is not true: because of the Jadidism movement level of literacy was very high even among women!

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Posted: 2020-02-07, 15:22
by Saim
I don’t think alphabets are particularly important to linguists or discussed all that much in linguistic research. I guess they’re somewhar relevant to sociolinguistics and language policy, sure.

Shark of Capitalism, this in fact isn’t a linguistics forum and if you get banned it won’t be for having an incorrect opinion but for breaking the forum rules. In any case unless I’ve skipped some comment I don’t think anyone has suggested you be banned.

I don’t see why Swedish in Cyrillic is any more absurd than, say, Mongolian in Cyrillic (in fact Swedish is a great deal closer to Old Church Slavonic than Mongolian is). How much Russification is there going on in Mongolia? Is Mongolian healthier where it’s generally written in Cyrillic or where it’s generally written in the Mongolian script? (Hint: the part where they use Cyrillic is a sovereign state).