I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

This forum is the place to have more serious discussions about politics and religion, and your opinions thereof. Be courteous!

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Forum rules
When a registered user insults another person (user or not), nation, political group or religious group, s/he will be deprived of her/his permission to post in the forum. That user has the right to re-register one week after s/he has lost the permission. Further violations will result in longer prohibitions.

By default, you are automatically registered to post in this forum. However, users cannot post in the politics forum during the first week after registration. Users can also not make their very first post in the politics forum.
User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-06, 20:01

And outlawing alphabets is inceredible idiocy.
And outlawing alphabet of not own language is square of inceredible idiocy.

What do you think?
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7740
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby md0 » 2020-02-06, 20:23

I think not spamming is quite important for Unilang 🤷
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Stable: Cypriot Greek (el-cy)Standard Modern Greek (el)English (en) Current: Standard German (de)
Legacy: France French (fr)Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr)Elementary Finnish (fi)Netherlands Dutch (nl)

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-06, 20:53

md0 wrote:I think not spamming is quite important for Unilang 🤷

So please, try to not spam!

What is your reply for?
I'am asking quite simple question because now my impression is that nobody cares%%%%%


PS

md0 Posts: 7642 -- no spam, I'm sure)))))
Maybe you think that unified Turkic alphabet https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=57973 and the Crimean Tatar dictionary https://forum.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=57981 I have been working on for two years are spam too, don't you?
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 5:18

So what do you think?

Some people say that alphabets are just matter of politics (somebody said that he just obeyed the orders) but outlawing alphabets is Stalin's nazi politics!

So people have the right to choose writing system as they want, what do you think?



GOD IS NOT IN POWER BUT IN TRUTH
Last edited by Shark of Capitalism on 2020-02-08, 6:55, edited 2 times in total.
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
md0
Posts: 7740
Joined: 2010-08-08, 19:56
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby md0 » 2020-02-07, 7:01

Shark of Capitalism wrote:So what do you think?


I think you should stick on the original thread you opened about this topic, and not open duplicates every three days since the day you joined this forum.
"If you like your clause structure, you can keep your clause structure"
Stable: Cypriot Greek (el-cy)Standard Modern Greek (el)English (en) Current: Standard German (de)
Legacy: France French (fr)Japanese (ja)Standard Turkish (tr)Elementary Finnish (fi)Netherlands Dutch (nl)

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 7:55

md0 wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:So what do you think?


I think you should stick on the original thread you opened about this topic, and not open duplicates every three days since the day you joined this forum.

It is called backseat moderating, isn't it?
Also it is obviuos that you cannot say anything that is why you are trying to "mentor" others... I appreciate that you have noticed my topics)))))
As well it is obviuos that you cannot read: despite my topics you so worry about (I think, not because of "reduplicating";)) are related to outlawing alphabets they are dedicated to the different aspect of the problem. For example here I just want to ask what do you(not you exactly but others) think about the problem itself! (Maybe linguists don't like alphabets themselves, just may not say it! Now they are allowed to))))))
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 8:11

Nobody says that outlawing alphabets is human rights violation so maybe I just have missed something, so I want to ask: I think it is one of forums' aims: to get answers...

(f*ck: if it is not a topic of "Politics and Religion" section of linguistic forum, what is the more appropriate place to ask???)
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
voron
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 4920
Joined: 2007-07-15, 3:29
Real Name: Igor
Gender: male
Country: TR Turkey (Türkiye)

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby voron » 2020-02-07, 9:45

Can you give examples of alphabet's outlawing so that we can discuss individual cases?

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 10:05

voron wrote:Can you give examples of alphabet's outlawing so that we can discuss individual cases?

6. В Российской Федерации алфавиты государственного языка Российской Федерации и государственных языков республик строятся на графической основе кириллицы.It means that alphabets of literally dozens of languages should be based on cyrillic and only on cyrillic (in spite BTW of modern not church cyrillic font is based on latinLOL). https://lenta.ru/articles/2004/11/16/language/ -- It was forbidden to write in the Kazan Tatar language in latin script. This is what I call square of inceredible idiocy because politicians that outlawed latin script didn't even know Kazan Tatar and didn't want to...


But the question in general is important too: like the human rights declaration: we have the right or we haven't?
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Johanna
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 6622
Joined: 2006-09-17, 18:05
Real Name: Johanna
Gender: female
Location: Lidköping, Westrogothia
Country: SE Sweden (Sverige)

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Johanna » 2020-02-07, 10:22

The minority languages of the Soviet Union were a bit of an oddity, to be honest.

First of all, most of those languages had not been written in any shape or form before, so that the Lenin Regime didn't just tell everyone to abandon their language in favor of Russian... It said "Learn to read and write in your native languate," a language that used the writing system of its closest relatives.

Then Stalin and Russification happened.

Honestly, in that light, those languages switching to the Cyrillic script was a very mild thing in comparison to the over-all Russification.
Swedish (sv) native; English (en) good; Norwegian (no) read fluently, understand well, speak badly; Danish (dk) read fluently, understand badly, can't speak; Faroese (fo) read some, understand a bit, speak a few sentences; German (de) French (fr) Spanish (es) forgetting; heritage language.

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 10:26

So we are already "extremists" "nationalists" "terrorists" and maybe even "islamists" just because we write latin)))))
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 10:41

Johanna wrote:The minority languages of the Soviet Union were a bit of an oddity, to be honest.

What do you mean?

Johanna wrote:First of all, most of those languages had not been written in any shape or form before

Turkic languages was written in Turkic runes from the AD VIIIth to the AD Xth century then in arabic script (it was in fact the common literary language: Ottoman Turkish is the closest example...)

Johanna wrote:a language that used the writing system of its closest relatives.

What do you mean?


The general question is still open: we have the right or we haven't?
Maybe if we are odd because somebody said so we have not right to choose writing system, right to live and so on...


BTW

Chinese language written by Dungan people in arabic script was turned into cyrillic too!
Last edited by Shark of Capitalism on 2020-02-07, 13:20, edited 2 times in total.
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 10:52

Johanna wrote:Honestly, in that light, those languages switching to the Cyrillic script was a very mild thing in comparison to the over-all Russification.

But how can we stop Russification if we may not even choose writing system?!
To stop Russification means to learn native language by adults. It means that nobody would dedicate all time to you like mother and proper alphabets in this case are very important. I can say for sure for cyrillic Turkic alphabets that they are only suitable for people that already know the language: imagine Swedish in cyrillic script! BTW we have couple of Swedish villages here in Ukraine, maybe Swedish is odd too, what do you think? It looks like a sort of phrasebook where we are trying to express one language in the terms of another but not to learn it in fact
Last edited by Shark of Capitalism on 2020-02-07, 18:01, edited 3 times in total.
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 10:58

Johanna wrote:the Lenin Regime didn't just tell everyone to abandon their language in favor of Russian... It said "Learn to read and write in your native languate,"

They murdered all Ukrainian bards in AD 1920s... "Learn to read and write comministic propaganda" I would say.
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 11:11

Johanna wrote:most of those languages had not been written in any shape or form before
Codex Cumanicus by European missioners was written in Crimea in the AD XIIIth century, so Turkic latin tradition is quite old. By the way Crimean Goths integrated themselves to the Crimean Tatar nation so we are a little bit Scandinavians too))))) Remembering that Ancient Ruthenia was ruled by Scandianvian lords ----


PS

They turned Tajiks' Persian into cyrillic too: no writing system at allLOL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ ... rizmi#Life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna#Early_life
-- modern Uzbekistan.

Maybe arabic numbers, algorithms and so on are "a bit of an oddity" too, what do you think?


F*ck: I would be funny to be banned from linguistic forum for saying that alphabets are quite important for linguists)))))
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

Synalepha

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Synalepha » 2020-02-07, 12:36

Shark of Capitalism wrote:I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists


Why?

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 12:47

Synalepha wrote:
Shark of Capitalism wrote:I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists


Why?

Maybe because they are somehow related to languages as well as linguists!
Do you know, how?
Last edited by Shark of Capitalism on 2020-02-07, 13:14, edited 1 time in total.
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 12:51

Shark of Capitalism wrote:imagine Swedish in cyrillic script

Enjoy: http://svspb.net/html/svparlor.php#1
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Shark of Capitalism
Posts: 61
Joined: 2019-12-30, 14:52
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Shark of Capitalism » 2020-02-07, 13:27

Also the article I mentioned states that most of the people were illiterate. As to Kazan Tatars it is not true: because of the Jadidism movement level of literacy was very high even among women!
Vive le capitalisme!
Vive la mondialisation!

User avatar
Saim
Posts: 5618
Joined: 2011-01-22, 5:44
Location: Novi Sad
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: I think, alphabets are quite important for linguists!

Postby Saim » 2020-02-07, 15:22

I don’t think alphabets are particularly important to linguists or discussed all that much in linguistic research. I guess they’re somewhar relevant to sociolinguistics and language policy, sure.

Shark of Capitalism, this in fact isn’t a linguistics forum and if you get banned it won’t be for having an incorrect opinion but for breaking the forum rules. In any case unless I’ve skipped some comment I don’t think anyone has suggested you be banned.

I don’t see why Swedish in Cyrillic is any more absurd than, say, Mongolian in Cyrillic (in fact Swedish is a great deal closer to Old Church Slavonic than Mongolian is). How much Russification is there going on in Mongolia? Is Mongolian healthier where it’s generally written in Cyrillic or where it’s generally written in the Mongolian script? (Hint: the part where they use Cyrillic is a sovereign state).


Return to “Politics and Religion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest