Re: The left wing on the internet?
Posted: 2019-12-12, 6:09
Attack ≠ kill
Vlürch wrote:But anyway, as for the rest of your post, it's incomprehensible to me that "antifa" is supposed to be a general term for all anti-fascists because I always heard it referring to specific (interconnected) organisations that are all part of the same specific kind of anti-fascist movement... I mean, I'm 100% certain I've heard/seen people say things along the lines of "I'm anti-fascist but hate antifa". If "antifa" is literally nothing but a synonym for "anti-fascist", that makes no sense.
And like, there are "antifa" Twitter accounts and whatnot that all use the same flag, but not everyone who calls themselves anti-fascist uses that flag. That flag also isn't included on the Wikipedia article on anti-fascism, but is included on the articles for the organisations calling themselves antifa ("antifa" is even a redirect page to organisations, and this article explicitly refers to anti-fascist groups), so if it was a universal anti-fascist symbol, it would logically be included on the main article and people who don't have connections to any groups would use it...?
I absolutely think violence against fascists is justified so I won't argue that as a reason to be cautious about identifying as "antifa" or using that flag or whatever, but I don't think (even accidentally) claiming connections to organisations you have no connections to is ever a good idea for several reasons.
md0 wrote:I was at a talk few years ago, hosted by my local antifa, and one of the point they made is that Cypriot fascism requires them to adopt certain positions (specifically supporting the creation of a federal Cypriot state) that many antifa in Europe would consider a liberal position.
And the relation to state power is such a core principle, yet it's not shared.
xBlackHeartx wrote:Vlurch, you fell victim to this once yourself. Do you think someone should've attacked you purely because you were lead astray?
md0 wrote:It all very much depends on how loose a structure are you willing to call an organisation.
md0 wrote:Antifa groups are very local in their scope, they are focused on defending their hometown at most, sometimes in bigger cities they focus on specific neighbourhoods.
xBlackHeartx wrote:Are you all insane??? You're arguing that people deserve to DIE purely for their political beliefs!
xBlackHeartx wrote:If you people like you are tolerated on this forum, I no longer want any part of it.
vijayjohn wrote:md0 wrote:I was at a talk few years ago, hosted by my local antifa, and one of the point they made is that Cypriot fascism requires them to adopt certain positions (specifically supporting the creation of a federal Cypriot state) that many antifa in Europe would consider a liberal position.
"Liberal" as opposed to left-wing? (I'm trying to understand what point you're trying to make here, but I'm not sure I get it).And the relation to state power is such a core principle, yet it's not shared.
What do you mean by this?
Vlürch wrote:Did xBlackHeartx's account get hacked or something? Or is this a mental problem similar to what I've had in the past? Or just trolling?
md0 wrote:Either definition of liberal would work here, since it's about using a state as an instrument to protect freedoms, something that many antifascists would find an oxymoron because they distrust or even oppose states.
vijayjohn wrote:Sort of both of the last two. This is how he's typically behaved every time he logs on, except that he doesn't usually stay on UniLang this long.
linguoboy wrote:The current death toll from antifa activity in the USA still stands at 0.
md0 wrote:I would let him have it, even though nothing in the first story even hints to politically-motivated violence.
Yasna wrote:md0 wrote:I would let him have it, even though nothing in the first story even hints to politically-motivated violence.
A "school resource officer" is basically a second-rate police officer. To an unhinged antifa member undoubtedly just another "pig".
md0 wrote:By the same logic, every murder of a PoC is a hate crime regardless of motive, and if I don't agree with that, then I'm sure you don't either.
Yasna wrote:md0 wrote:By the same logic, every murder of a PoC is a hate crime regardless of motive, and if I don't agree with that, then I'm sure you don't either.
It's more like if a member of the KKK murders a black person, it's likely that racism played a part.