Not to sound like a dick, but could someone maybe suggest some predominantly left-wing sites? I can absolutely relate to xBlackHeartx's experience of bumping into the alt-right seemingly everywhere, and that was one of the reasons I started to be
drawn to the alt-right in the first place back when I was drawn to it: they started showing up
everywhere and took absolute control of The Narrative and using traditionally left-wing arguments to push oppressive and right-wing ideas even before the term "alt-right" even hit the mainstream. It got much worse when Trump became president, and it's been nothing but downhill since then.
Rambling about why the alt-right is so dangerous and successful in a spoiler:
► Show Spoiler
For months I tried to look up points to counter their obvious bullshit back when they started infesting the sites I frequented (and it is obvious bullshit the first times you're exposed to it), but the information just wasn't there except maybe on sites whose "bias" and "unreliability" they had already "demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt". What makes it even worse is that often they do include actual facts as well, and the only thing they add to them is an implication of causation due to correlation or some scientific or sociological theory (including ones originating from the left) to explain why it is the way it is.
You can't argue with that because if you try to counter the facts, like transgender suicide rates, you already lose the argument that second because they are facts even if they're painful to accept... and if you try to argue that the reasons behind those facts are different than what they claim, it's your word against theirs (or at least they'll insist that). You also can't really argue with the lies because even if you demonstrate them to be lies, they'll just attack you as a person. The only hope you have of "winning" the argument at that point is to go the "not so different" route, as in going out of your way to agree with them on something to demonstrate that their ad hominem attacks are targeting a strawman. At that point, even if you win the argument, you've already lost the fight.
They literally brainwash people. They keep repeating the same things over and over and over again, until you just give up because it reaches a point where it's like talking to a brick wall except that brick wall keeps closing in on you faster and faster the harder you try to push against it. When you give up, that's when they win, but it's not just the argument with you they win but any future argument any alt-righter would've had with anyone who happens to read the argument later. That's why they like to keep everything as public as they can, to convince onlookers they're right. It doesn't even matter if they're actually convincing, just that they come out on top. Even if you present facts and debunk all of their arguments, they'll still win the argument by repeating the same bullshit over and over again and sooner or later you will stop responding. They'll always respond one last time. They'll always have the last word.
An alt-righter's most powerful weapon is the knowledge that they're not alone. They always have someone they can ask to back them up in an argument, thus ending up with the appeal to majority in like 99% of arguments because they'll rarely instigate arguments under circumstances where they know the odds aren't in their favour, and they'll quickly stop responding if they realise that an argument they're having with someone isn't going to be one they'll win; they'll just say something witty to "discredit" anything you or anyone else will say later and will never even see your arguments. Another tactic of theirs is to claim that it's not even an argument, meaning you're the only one taking the situation seriously and as such the one who should shut up... and most of the time it works, making you the one to bear the consequences.
I've openly admitted to being drawn to the alt-right in the past and that I'm still struggling with completely withdrawing from their influence, but that's the thing: once a Nazi, always a Nazi. It leaves a stain on your soul that never leaves, even if you never embraced the worst parts of it. You'll never be "pure" again. You can distance yourself from them and embrace every single left-wing and liberal point, but you'll still have that "am I a Nazi?" question clawing at you deep inside. Nobody on the left will ever truly accept you as one of them, and even more importantly you will never accept yourself as one of them. That's why the alt-right will inevitably win and why I'm scared shitless for the future... not one alt-righter agrees entirely with another on every single issue and their way of dealing with that is to just agree to disagree and focus on the fight against everyone else, while everyone on the left is constantly arguing with each other over the most minor issues.
I have no idea what kind of sites most of you go on if you don't see it, but the only sites left that seem to not have at least a significant minority of alt-righters are linguistic forums... most of those who would be drawn to liberalism under any other circumstances are now drawn to the alt-right, and the left needs to find a way to draw them in instead.
...and I know, I know, I'll be called an alarmist doomsday conspiracy nut and a cryptofascist and whatever, but that's EXACTLY the problem. The left is becoming more and more fragmented and pushing its own to the right, and the right as a whole is doing all it can to encourage that, and the alt-right in particular is embracing talking points that used to belong to the left and twisting them to their exact opposites.
We need to accept that the alt-right is not just a minor decentralised mob of trolls but an ever-expanding empire that's engulfing the internet and the real world too fast for the people to even see it happening in real time, except for those who once supported that expansionism. Just because the alt-right isn't centralised and doesn't have one leader now doesn't mean it won't in the future. It absolutely will. Sooner or later someone will step up and become the new Hitler, and as societies are now, there's no way to stop that someone from rising to the top.
If there are any left-wing sites that aren't plagued by constant infighting, that'd be really nice. What I'd be the happiest about would be a site for all kinds of content and discussion that just happens to have a largely left-wing userbase but whose users and mods aren't outright Soviet apologists or militant anarchists... you know, something like 4chan or Reddit, just without the alt-righters shitting the site up and without all the internal arguments between leftists.
Another thing I'd be happy about would be a left-wing DIY music site, but I think the problem with that is that musicians tend to want to get rich and famous so that they can make a living by making music, which is an inherently capitalistic goal... not that it's a
bad goal, but it's still annoying and turns everything into a pissing contest.
Do any even exist?
md0 wrote:Opposition to fascism is akin to an immune system respond. We fight against what threatens us, our freedom and rights. In the absence of that threat, we enjoy our life.
...except that right now the majority of people support fascism. The most popular party in Finland by far is Basic Finns, who have connections to the NRM (which is a banned Neo-Nazi terrorist organisation), and
they just keep getting more and more popular every time there are polls or estimates. It's impossible to read Finnish tweets and not see absolutely batshit insane far-right tweets with overwhelmingly positive replies, and they far outnumber left-wing or liberal tweets and every left-wing or liberal tweet has overwhelmingly negative replies.
It's not just Finland, either. Is there
any country in the world right now where antifascists are more popular than fascists among the people, even if the government is left-wing or liberal or whatever? I honestly doubt it, but it'd make me have at least some hope for humanity if there was at least one country where that was the case.
vijayjohn wrote:For whatever it's worth, I myself didn't know that antifa simply meant all anti-fascists; I thought it was a specific movement within anti-fascism or something.
Same, and it kind of is (at least in Finland)... one with only like a tenth of the supporters that fascist movements get, though, unfortunately, at least online. In real life anti-fascist counterprotesters tend to outnumber fascist protesters, but AFAIK the police usually treat the anti-fascist counterprotesters worse than they treat the fascist protesters. Thankfully Roihuvuori is apparently still a mostly left-wing place, and there are only (or at least mostly) left-wing and anti-Nazi stickers on street poles and graffiti and whatnot. Going just a little bit in any direction, there will mostly be right-wing and Nazi stickers on street poles and graffiti, though...
United States (United States)
Germany (Deutschland)
Finland (Suomi)
