The left wing on the internet?

[xBlackHeartx]

The alt-right has completely taken over the internet in America, and I'm sick of seeing bigotry and conspiracy theories and whatnot everywhere I go. I seriously don't know of any place I could go online that ISN'T associated with the alt-right. In a vox video a few years ago, some Neo-confederate woman claimed that you used to have to go to 'the dark corners of the internet' to find your opinions if you were what we now call an alt-righter. Now, it seems you have to do that if you're NOT a part of the alt-right.

I'm sick of the alt-right, and the only alternatives I've been able to find anywhere are Communist youtube channels like Vox, which I'm not too fond of. I never agreed with everything they said; I just watched them just so I can see some sanity online.

I don't necessarily want a place where I can voice my opinions (though I'm sure others would), I just want a place I can go where I don't have to look at dozens of articles and videos and whatnot bashing on feminism and blacks and 'leftists' and anyone else who actually has some resemblance of sanity. I'm just beyond sick of having to look at this kind of stuff all the time. It distresses me and it doesn't seem I can escape it, no matter where I go.

[Yasna]

You must have a pretty broad definition of alt-right if you're seeing it everywhere. The websites of the major three newspapers have essentially no alt-right content; the NYT, WaPo, and WSJ.

[md0]

Communist youtube channels like Vox

That's one hell of a broad definition for 'communist' as well, if they are talking about the main channel that goes by the name Vox.

[xBlackHeartx]

Communist youtube channels like Vox

That's one hell of a broad definition for 'communist' as well, if they are talking about the main channel that goes by the name Vox.

You do know they openly admit to being communist, and even once uploaded a video seriously defending the antifa, right?

[linguoboy]

You do know they openly admit to being communist

[citation needed]

and even once uploaded a video seriously defending the antifa, right?

You mean, those same folks who are actively fighting the alt-right you claim to despise?

[Saim]

I'm sick of the alt-right, and the only alternatives I've been able to find anywhere are Communist youtube channels like Vox, which I'm not too fond of. I never agreed with everything they said; I just watched them just so I can see some sanity online.

I don't necessarily want a place where I can voice my opinions (though I'm sure others would), I just want a place I can go where I don't have to look at dozens of articles and videos and whatnot bashing on feminism and blacks and 'leftists' and anyone else who actually has some resemblance of sanity. I'm just beyond sick of having to look at this kind of stuff all the time. It distresses me and it doesn't seem I can escape it, no matter where I go.

What kind of websites do you want? I think there might be some Facebook groups and pages, subreddits or YouTube channels that fit the bill. As Yasna suggested you could also read newspapers, but it really depends on what kind of content you enjoy reading. I certainly sympathise with your exasperation at the rightward radicalisation of large swathes of the internet, but it's hard to recommend anything without knowing what exactly you're looking for.

You do know they openly admit to being communist, and even once uploaded a video seriously defending the antifa, right?

I guess it's probably true that most communists at least in Western countries would sympathise with antifa but I know for a fact that there are non-communists who "defend antifa" as well.

[awrui]

and even once uploaded a video seriously defending the antifa, right?

Yeah, I mean, what's wrong with fascism? Why would anyone stand up against that? Probably all evil communists and socialists. Hitler wansn't actually a bad guy, right? Also that Franco-guy and that Mussolini-guy had some really good points. Who needs democracy anyways.
(Yes, this is sarcasm. I distance myself from fascism, and it's important that people are doing something against.)

Poor you, living in a country that is so polarized. If I was you, I'd do the same I did: learn some languages and leave somewhere where society suits my values better. I was so tired of having to take shit for having a uterus and being atheist, I left that place and lived happily ever after.
Also, I think you need more political education.

[Ciarán12]

As more or less a centrist (I don't like labels, but if I had to pick one...) I'm pissed of at almost everyone for pretty much everything they say. The internet is a sewer and we inhabit the planet with a terrifying number of people who are actually too stupid to understand arguments.

[Yasna]

As more or less a centrist (I don't like labels, but if I had to pick one...) I'm pissed of at almost everyone for pretty much everything they say.

Be glad that you have a political system that encourages centrism (parliamentary coalitions), rather than one that encourages the most extreme, absurd partisanism (the American political system).

[md0]

You do know they openly admit to being communist, and even once uploaded a video seriously defending the antifa, right?

I remember that video and a) it was not defending antifa as such but it was a much milder version of both-sides-ism than what you usually get from US American Democrat supporting media, b) you really gotta cite your sources on them having admitted to being communists because Vox videos about socialism and communism are always antipathetic to them and they often signal support for regime change operations in countries that are supposed to be communist, and of course c) being antifascist doesn't mean you are a communist even if historically those two political ideologies overlapped - even in the 30s and 40s there were liberal and even moderately right-wing antifascists (eg the resistance to the Nazis in Greek span across two thirds of the political spectrum, including the centre-right).

The internet made me a very cynical person, so I give it a 5% chance you are actually confused about these issues, and a 95% you are concern-trolling in support of an alt-light political position.

[xBlackHeartx]

Vox regularly quotes Marx and other communist literature. They've even used the term 'late-stage capitalism', which is a term only found in marxism!

If you want some examples, just watch their videos. Here's one where they use 'false consciousness', which is a term originating from Karl Marx:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNineSEoxjQ

Granted, I don't necessarily disagree with what they're saying, I'm just pointing it out as one of the examples of them bringing up communist terminology.

Carlos also in one video openly called himself a 'communist sjw' or something of the like, but I'm not sure if he was being serious or sarcastic. Either way, I'm hardly the first person to accuse Vox of being communist (a while back a lot of people on the left were complaining about how their communist channel was the only political channel on youtube NOT part of the alt-right). As for that video, I can't recall which one it was sadly. They've been putting out videos quite frequently ever since Trump was elected, and it doesn't help that they've gotten highly repetitive. At one point I was getting really sick of seeing them write a 10-page article every single time Trump made an idiot out of himself on twitter. Yeah, Trump's an idiot, I don't dispute that in the slightest, but is it REALLY necessary to write a flipping book every single time he demonstrate that??? Could they seriously not find something else to talk about every now and then??? Of course, they've since gotten better about that, but at one point it was like I was just re-reading the same long-winded article over and over again.

Also, I've more than once stumbled upon people that were openly communist, but I didn't find out about it until much later. One was some guy on youtube who talked a lot about feminism and egalitarianism, but his channel vanished years ago. I don't know the exact reason for that, but it was shortly after he uploaded a video where he interviewed a man who was a well-known communist (Noam Chomsky I think it was), and it was obvious that he was one himself. There's also Stepback History, which is run by a guy who, again, openly admits to being pro-communist. Scary enough, he's also quite well respected in the history community, even though I don't know of any others that seriously defend communism.

Of course, it may be more appropriate to call Vox socialists. They're obviously anti-authoritarian, but I think they just go to far with it. As for the antifa, yeah, they're opposed to the alt-right, but that doesn't mean they're in the right. Seriously, their actions are what was primarily responsible for the increasing violence we saw in protests just a few years ago! And yes, I know most antifa in the US are anarchist, but that isn't a good thing either! And who cares what they believe? They incite and commit violence! And lets be honest here, anarchy isn't any more right or sensible than fascism. Honestly, the sole reason everyone hates the alt-right more is because they have far more influence over this country right now. But if they weren't, would anyone really see the antifa as being better than them? Besides, what are their actions going to accomplish? All they do is make the left look like its as prone to extremism as the right.

[Osias]

At first I thought it was the Vox from Spain.

[md0]

I failed to consider compound probability of course, you can be both.To do my bit to help you: Karl Marx, in addition to being the author of the Communist Manifesto, is also one of the most important sociologists to this day, he is part of the Western canon, and even if one absolutely despises communism, they will engage with his theories if they are in the field. That alone doesn't make them communist.

Others may do some of your homework on your other points, it's late in my timezone.

[linguoboy]

Besides, what are their actions going to accomplish?

Literally stopping people from being murdered?

This hot take on antifa could have appeared on Fox or Sinclair News word-for-word and no one would’ve raised an eyebrow. I think you hit every conservative talking point on the topic.

[Yasna]

Vox regularly quotes Marx and other communist literature.

Genetic fallacy

[Saim]

If they’re communists I’m not sure what they stand to gain in covering every single thing Trump says. The consensus among communists as far as I can tell is that Trump isn’t uniquely evil when it comes to US presidents. Sounds more like liberal Democrats to me.

I also don’t think Chomsky would call himself a communist, unless you’re conflating anarchism and communism (there’s of course overlap and “anarchocommunism” is one of the main tendencies within anarchism, but it’s not the same thing). But Chomsky is barely an anarchist in the first place.

As for antifa, I thought your point originally was not that they’re bad, but that supporting them is evidence for being a communist. Do only communists have bad positions on violence? Certainly justifying some form of violence is common to all corners of the political spectrum; I suspect you and I might have disagreements about violence committed by the police and the military.

There's also Stepback History, which is run by a guy who, again, openly admits to being pro-communist. Scary enough, he's also quite well respected in the history community, even though I don't know of any others that seriously defend communism.

When you say he “defends communism” do you mean that he defends “real socialist” nation-states under Marxist-Leninist party rule?

[xBlackHeartx]

I failed to consider compound probability of course, you can be both.To do my bit to help you: Karl Marx, in addition to being the author of the Communist Manifesto, is also one of the most important sociologists to this day, he is part of the Western canon, and even if one absolutely despises communism, they will engage with his theories if they are in the field. That alone doesn't make them communist.

Others may do some of your homework on your other points, it's late in my timezone.

All I've ever heard was that he didn't know the first thing about economics, and inspired a movement that lead to some of the worst totalitarian regimes on the planet. I certainly never heard his name come up in any classes on economics. Literally the only time I've ever heard his name come up is in discussions about the rise of communism. Of course, I'm aware he IS talked about a lot in communist nations, that happen to also be famous for propaganda and dis-information. They're not exactly famous for valuing truth. They're basically like the US is today, except if the antifa were in control rather than the alt-right. Just because two factions don't like each other doesn't mean that one must be the good guys, or sane. As I said, the only reason the alt-right gets more flak than the antifa is because the alt-right are the ones currently in control of this country, and thus they're a far bigger threat. And yeah, the antifa don't like the alt-right, but so what? Who doesn't? That's not unique. What's unique about them is they're a violent group. That's all that really matters.

And how are their actions supposed to accomplish anything? Can what they're doing remove corruption from our government? Will it keep more alt-righters from getting into the presidency? Will it do anything about worthless youtube allowing those idiots to proliferate and spread their disease? Will it do ANYTHING about all the high-profile politicians, celebrities, and scientists who openly defend racism??? No, and any person with brain cells can see that. What they're doing is NOT a solution, its just a pointless waste of life that is also feeding into the utterly delusional rhetoric of the alt-right.

[md0]

All I've ever heard was that he didn't know the first thing about economics, and inspired a movement that lead to some of the worst totalitarian regimes on the planet. I certainly never heard his name come up in any classes on economics. Literally the only time I've ever heard his name come up is in discussions about the rise of communism. Of course, I'm aware he IS talked about a lot in communist nations, that happen to also be famous for propaganda and dis-information. They're not exactly famous for valuing truth.

If I didn't know other US Americans, I would be tempted to excuse this much ignorance as resulting from the legacy of the red scare during the Cold War - but I never heard anything remotely like what I've quoted here before. I'm willing to bet that the only university anywhere in the western world that teaches sociology without Marx is Prager U, and that's not a university so that should say something.

I really don't think you are doing anything in good faith here. You made some points, people from all over the political spectrum engaged you, not just leftists but you didn't respond to any counter points. You are here just to rant against antifascism, so drop the pretences. Some people say we should engage trolls like you for the sake of the audience sitting on the fence about a given issue, but I don't think that going around in circles on the internet is productive political activity.

[Saim]

Here's one of my favourite Communist party pamphlets and their take on Marx:

https://www.economist.com/books-and-art ... -karl-marx

Rulers of the world: read Karl Marx!
On his bicentenary Marx’s diagnosis of capitalism’s flaws is surprisingly relevant

A GOOD subtitle for a biography of Karl Marx would be “a study in failure”. Marx claimed that the point of philosophy was not just to understand the world but to improve it. Yet his philosophy changed it largely for the worst: the 40% of humanity who lived under Marxist regimes for much of the 20th century endured famines, gulags and party dictatorships. Marx thought his new dialectical science would allow him to predict the future as well as understand the present. Yet he failed to anticipate two of the biggest developments of the 20th century—the rise of fascism and the welfare state—and wrongly believed communism would take root in the most advanced economies. Today’s only successful self-styled Marxist regime is an enthusiastic practitioner of capitalism (or “socialism with Chinese characteristics”).

Yet for all his oversights, Marx remains a monumental figure.

[xBlackHeartx]

All I've ever heard was that he didn't know the first thing about economics, and inspired a movement that lead to some of the worst totalitarian regimes on the planet. I certainly never heard his name come up in any classes on economics. Literally the only time I've ever heard his name come up is in discussions about the rise of communism. Of course, I'm aware he IS talked about a lot in communist nations, that happen to also be famous for propaganda and dis-information. They're not exactly famous for valuing truth.

If I didn't know other US Americans, I would be tempted to excuse this much ignorance as resulting from the legacy of the red scare during the Cold War - but I never heard anything remotely like what I've quoted here before. I'm willing to bet that the only university anywhere in the western world that teaches sociology without Marx is Prager U, and that's not a university so that should say something.

I really don't think you are doing anything in good faith here. You made some points, people from all over the political spectrum engaged you, not just leftists but you didn't respond to any counter points. You are here just to rant against antifascism, so drop the pretences. Some people say we should engage trolls like you for the sake of the audience sitting on the fence about a given issue, but I don't think that going around in circles on the internet is productive political activity.

Wtf is this? Are you an alt-righter or something? I am NOT a part of the alt-right nor have I ever been. I've done nothing but insult those bigotted lunatics and I get called one anyway? All anyone in this thread has done is call me a concern troll and an alt-righter for no reason in the entire universe.

And I don't know what kind of Americans you're talking to if they say they've read Karl Marx. You know alt-righters often claim that there's a communist conspiracy in the country, right? They're probably just telling you that to make you think there IS a communist conspiracy in this country (of course, in their world, everyone who isn't them is a part of said conspiracy, they're not exactly known for being sane). And yes, a major talking point with them is that colleges and universities and the entire school system is trying to indoctrinate everyone into communism, which they seem to simply define as 'giving a rat's ass about something other than yourself'.

All this thread is ME being PERSONALLY ATTACKED for being something that I clearly am not. I made this thread wanting to find something that wasn't alt-right, and people just accuse me of being one. And no, alt-righters normally don't claim to be dominant in the media. They claim everyone except Trump is part of some kind of conspiracy to make white people extinct or establish a communist state or some other stupid nonsense like that. They also complain all the time on youtube about how there's no alt-right content anymore. I'm personally not seeing this btw, I type in ANYTHING on youtube I get conspiracy theories and racist tirades. And I'm not the only person complaining about this. Though i've seen some people claim that youtube changed their algorithm to only show people beliefs that are completely opposed to theirs, apparently in a mis-guided attempt to keep people from falling into rabbit holes. And seeing the blatant stupidity of youtube over the past 10 or so years, I wouldn't be surprised one bit if they did something THAT stupid (it would hardly be the dumbest thing they've done, lets be honest).

And why is it that no matter how many times I report people in this thread, NOTHING happens and I don't even get so much as a message that the report was closed???? I mean, how is accusing an obvious leftist of being a NAZI NOT CONSIDERED A BANNABLE OFFENSE?????