Random Politics 2

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md0
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby md0 » 2019-07-03, 8:40

So much for the Spitzenkandidat process huh?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48841980

She sounds like a war hawk too.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby kevin » 2019-07-03, 11:19

The most positive aspect of it is that we'd get rid of her at the national level...

We'll see if the parliament actually agrees to the proposal. In the past, they have pretty consistently insisted on their influence instead of agreeing to things that would weaken the position of the parliament.

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby Aurinĭa » 2019-07-03, 15:58

admin

A number of posts have been removed for trolling, and one post that replied to one of them.

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby md0 » 2019-07-03, 18:38

kevin wrote:We'll see if the parliament actually agrees to the proposal. In the past, they have pretty consistently insisted on their influence instead of agreeing to things that would weaken the position of the parliament.

What can the Parliament do other than delay the inevitable though? :hmm:
The balance of power is tipped in the Council's favour unfortunately.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby kevin » 2019-07-03, 19:50

Not really, they have the same power effectively. Formally, they have different roles because it's the Council that makes the proposals and the Parliament that has to approve the proposal, but in the end, both sides can only get anywhere if they get the other side to agree. The Parliament can delay things by voting down proposals, and the Council can delay things by making the same unacceptable proposal again and again. Everything else they can only do together.

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby md0 » 2019-07-03, 20:09

The way out is a compromise though, and since the Comission likes neither the EPP nor the SD lead candidate, it's still going to be someone who we didn't vote for and whom some member state government wants to send away for a while. I don't forsee the two main parties denying the ECs proposal forever.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby Car » 2019-07-03, 20:18

md0 wrote:She sounds like a war hawk too.

Oh, she's so incompetent that I wouldn't worry about that. She managed to completely ruin the Bundeswehr after all.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby kevin » 2019-07-03, 21:36

md0 wrote:The way out is a compromise though, and since the Comission likes neither the EPP nor the SD lead candidate, it's still going to be someone who we didn't vote for and whom some member state government wants to send away for a while. I don't forsee the two main parties denying the ECs proposal forever.

I think Timmermans would actually have had a majority if they had decided to vote (and overrule the usual Eastern Euopean troublemakers). Unanimous decisions are much harder to reach, that's true.

But I also wonder why Vestager was never discussed seriously. She's not my favourite, but she was sort of a spitzenkandidat and should be at least acceptable for both EPP and S&D. That would be a much better result than nominating someone who had nothing to do with the election at all.

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby md0 » 2019-07-04, 5:20

Perhaps she has also made enemies in Eastern European right-wing government ranks, and that's why she is not considered.

I'm wondering how different things would be if we had a purely parliamentary process, without state governments involved. Maybe it would lead to Coalition Commissions where, eg. the Greens, would have a chance to participate.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby kevin » 2019-07-04, 8:33

I agree that some things would improve if the national government didn't have so much influence on the EU level. In particular it would put an end to the practice that everything popular done on the EU level is a success of the national government, and everything unpopular done by the very same politicians - well, Brussels is to blame.

If the commissioners were elected by the parliament instead of appointed by the national governments, then we might indeed see the Greens in the Commission (or we might not, EPP/S&D/ALDE already have a majority). But I don't see any chance that the EU is moving away from "one commissioner for each members state". As much as I'd like it, things are moving in the opposite direction.

But anyway, this specific process of finding a President of the Commissino probably wouldn't change much. Just look at the distribution of seats. These are the possible coalitions:

Image

For a healthy political system, EPP and S&D would have to be in different blocks, but there are no realistic majorities that don't include both of them and at least one more party. This cannot result in much good, but that's how the election result is.

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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby md0 » 2019-07-04, 8:56

For a healthy political system, EPP and S&D would have to be in different blocks, but there are no realistic majorities that don't include both of them and at least one more party. This cannot result in much good, but that's how the election result is.

I completely agree with that, but I think that once the electoral system changes, the voting patterns will evolve in a few cycles. So far, few people vote MEPs with the future of the EU in mind, because few are convinced that MEPs have power over it.

But I don't see any chance that the EU is moving away from "one commissioner for each members state". As much as I'd like it, things are moving in the opposite direction.

Maybe it's not entirely impossible to keep that under a parliament-elected Commission - European parties can produce (internal or public) lists of proposed commissioners that are geographically balanced and run with them.

The current level of EU integration is very awkward so there are no easy solutions.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby Car » 2019-07-04, 19:00

kevin wrote:
md0 wrote:But I also wonder why Vestager was never discussed seriously. She's not my favourite, but she was sort of a spitzenkandidat and should be at least acceptable for both EPP and S&D. That would be a much better result than nominating someone who had nothing to do with the election at all.

She's not a member of either EPP or S&D. You'd have thought that might make her an acceptable compromise, but apparently not.

I agree the situation is awkward, but they'd either have to agree to integrate further or reduce the amount of integration to become more democratic. I don't see a clear majority for either solution, so they'll try to continue somehow.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby md0 » 2019-07-16, 17:45

Democratisation postponed until further notice
https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/16/wat ... -president

I'd love to see the vote breakdown by MEP and European Party, but apparently S&D and ALDE just went with the flow. Apparently they went with secret ballot too.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby Car » 2019-07-16, 20:01

md0 wrote:Democratisation postponed until further notice
https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/16/wat ... -president

I'd love to see the vote breakdown by MEP and European Party, but apparently S&D and ALDE just went with the flow. Apparently they went with secret ballot too.

Apparently not all of S&D, although they recommended their MEPs to vote for her. But yes, it really would be good if we got to see the vote breakdown.

Edit: And AKK becomes our new Minister of Defence. I said the other day that you should be careful with saying "It can't get any worse", because some of von der Leyen's predecessors were quite bad, too, and now they come up with her? :cry:
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby md0 » 2019-07-17, 3:15

I can safely assume that the Cypriot EPP MEPs voted for von der Leyen, and that the Cypriot GUE/NGL MEPs voted against her, but we have two S&D MEPs I'm honestly not sure what they did in the end. The EDEK one was on radio a week ago moderately against the compromise candidacy.

I know nothing about AKK now that you mention it. What sort of politician is she in relation to mainstream CDU politics?
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby Yasna » 2019-07-17, 3:41

md0 wrote:I know nothing about AKK now that you mention it. What sort of politician is she in relation to mainstream CDU politics?

Pretty much a clone of Merkel. Pragmatic, not very ideological.
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby Car » 2019-07-17, 8:00

Yasna wrote:
md0 wrote:I know nothing about AKK now that you mention it. What sort of politician is she in relation to mainstream CDU politics?

Pretty much a clone of Merkel. Pragmatic, not very ideological.

Well, that's what was said when she first became the leader of the CDU, but she's tried to move away from that, trying to become more conservative than Merkel. But I'm not sure how much of that is genuine and how much was meant to appeal to the members that want the CDU to become more conservative again.
When Merkel was in the opposition, she had very different positions compared to the ones she has now (people even quote her to criticise her politics...), so we'll see where she'd take the CDU should she become chancellor (which isn't certain at all yet, especially not with that ministry she's got to take care of).
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Re: Random Politics 2

Postby vijayjohn » 2019-07-19, 17:25

My dad seems to be pretty fascinated with China lately. I remember he was once thinking of getting China Daily to understand better what was going on in China, but I think what he's really interested in is what's actually going on vs. what the Western media says, and I don't really think that particular publication is going to give him much information in that regard. He suspects the US isn't going to be able to hold as much political power over the world as it historically has for much longer. I'm inclined to agree.


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